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> “We decided it would be blazingly fast; it would be visually gorgeous; the whole thing would work offline; you wouldn’t need a multitude of browser extensions

by Jedd 9y ago

> “We decided it would be blazingly fast; it would be visually gorgeous; the whole thing would work offline; you wouldn’t need a multitude of browser extensions to get things done; and people would be materially faster at doing their email.” I've not used the previous product(s) this guy has worked on, but from reading TFA, and notably the way they reiterate those claims a few times, I'm confused. First, general nomenclature grumble, using an existing english word as a product name. They seem to be positioning as a superior option to gmail, for current gmail users. Disclaimer - I've been using email since the late 1980's, and gmail since 2004. I've also used a bundle of other mail clients (kmail/kontact, outlook, thunderbird, etc). Gmail is blazingly fast - I've not seen it stall or choke or any tasks Visually gmail looks clean and effective to my eye -- and I don't think gorgeousness would be a compelling reason to move away. Gmail can work fine offline - either mobile device, or the wonderful Gmail Offline extension[1] -- sure, it's Chrom* only, but I gather the 'gigabytes of offline' in this thing is Chrom* only also(?). That extension is fantastic for flights or when I'm working in remote regions, and don't want to deal with a mobile device. Apart from that, I don't have any other gmail-specific extensions - but even if I did, is it believed these are harder to set up and learn than a different mail client? Really at a loss how I could be faster 'at doing my email' -- for people I see who struggle with email, a small portion of their problem is familiarity with the features of their client, but most of it is because their workflow is poor. Rarely is it because the mail client is actually broken and working against you. (Outlook being the obvious exception.) [1] https://gmail.googleblog.com/2011/08/using-gmail-calendar-and-docs-without.html https://gmail.googleblog.com/2011/08/using-gmail-calendar-an...

bravura 9y ago
Do you use gmail or inbox now? Can you describe your workflow? One issue I have with gmail is that it takes a million clicks and like 10 seconds to filter email so that I never see that sender/subject/whatever again. Do you have a solution?
- Jedd 9y ago
  I use gmail app on mobile (and Nine for talking to work Exchange server). I don't use Priority inbox feature. I use incoming filters to apply labels. I try to process each message once - and am happy to archive anything non-actionable. For mail I don't wish to receive or keep, I'll take the time to stop it being sent to me, rather than set up a filter/blocker at my end. For mail I only want to be able to search for later I'll filter to auto-archive on receipt. I try to avoid using my inbox as a todo list - having a separate task tracker makes this possible (different tools vary the ease of this, of course). I suspect most people who struggle with email don't have a task tracker (or if they do, they aren't using that properly either) but that's based on a relatively small set of anecdata. When you say it takes a million clicks and 10 seconds to filter email - do you mean to create a new filter on an arbitrary email? How often are you creating new filters?
  - bravura 9y ago
    For mail I don't wish to receive or keep, I'll take the time to stop it being sent to me, rather than set up a filter/blocker at my end. How? Through unsubscribes? I try to avoid using my inbox as a todo list - having a separate task tracker makes this possible (different tools vary the ease of this, of course). So on mobile you are switching back and forth between apps a bunch? While you process email? I just want to understand the workflow a bit better. I suspect most people who struggle with email don't have a task tracker (or if they do, they aren't using that properly either) How do you use a task tracker correctly/incorrectly? * When you say it takes a million clicks and 10 seconds to filter email - do you mean to create a new filter on an arbitrary email? How often are you creating new filters?* Yeah. I have a lot of transactional emails that I want to archive. Maybe if I sat down for two hours I'd be done. My personal inbox is a mess.
    - Jedd 9y ago
      I should mention I'm not fantastic at this stuff - it takes consistent effort to maintain, and of course we all have our unique challenges and preferences. I'd recommend searching around for some blogs that go into more detail on workflows, and reading Getting Things Done (Dave Allen). I've tried to adopt some of the key habits he describes. Yes - I take the effort to unsubscribe from unwanted mail. These days much easier, as the unsubscribe link is usually to be found in the email itself. (In the olden days it was a bit trickier, getting yourself off lists.) Worst case I'll mark it as spam. The intent is to not have my mail archive crufted up with stuff I don't want - it reduces search efficacy later. On mobile I usually don't do a lot of mail 'processing' -- phones frustrate me, and I defer most things to when I have a decent keyboard & screen in front of me. I do have trello and trello-add-card (widget) on my phone's home page, and the latter is a fast way to cut-n-paste new items into. There's also the option to forward email to your private trello board/inbox using the obfuscated email address they provide for each board. During your nightly task review you would then tidy up the card title & description. How do you use a task-tracker correctly ... now that's a big question :) Biggest thing for me is that I trust that when something goes into my task tracker, I can get rid of it from email, my brain, post-it notes, etc. Sensible columns categories, thoughtful card names, learn the keyboard shortcuts (desktop web trello client in my case), colour coding, try to make cards describe actionable steps, 'next steps' should be do-able right now (cards with dependencies can't be 'in progress', f.e.). Is there a requirement that you observe or interact with each of the transactional emails you're receiving? Is it something that could be handled by a script, log analyser, etc? Or when you say you want to archive them, do you mean the time-consuming process is identifying candidates for manual or automatic archival?
- bobwaycott 9y ago
  Keyboard shortcuts[0]. Unsubscribe links. [0]: Keyboard shortcut for More > arrow down to Filter messages like these > adjust rules if needed > Enter
untangle 9y ago
> Gmail is blazingly fast I would say that gmail performance is well above adequate – especially in search. But try Fastmail if you want to see blazing.
- tjoff 9y ago
  Uhm, people think gmail is fast? I can fetch a brand new page on my phone over 4G faster than browsing gmail on an i7 desktop. And fast search? Only if you don't have any desire to find anything.
- Hasknewbie 9y ago
  I've seen this claim several times in this thread now. Having used Fastmail since 2013, how is it blazingly fast since its UI will randomly perform a full reload when you switch back to its tab? It happens multiple times a day. The last time I've had Gmail suddenly decide to reload the page the moment I need to use it? Never.
vidarh 9y ago
> Gmail is blazingly fast - I've not seen it stall or choke or any tasks Try to delete a few thousand messages at a time, and see it not just choke, but cause timeouts or 500 errors when you try to reload the inbox in another tab. At least it consistently does this for me over several accounts, both regular Gmail and paid apps accounts.
- singham 9y ago
  I have deleted thousands of google group messages and never found any problem. Maybe it is just for you.
  - vidarh 9y ago
    Google groups is entirely different to Gmail in behaviour.
- Jedd 9y ago
  Look, fair call, I've never tried to delete thousands of messages in one go. What kind of workflow do you have where you need to delete a few thousand messages, and how often does that happen?
  - vacri 9y ago
    Testing/QA accounts are one use-case where you can get a ton of mail.
  - vidarh 9y ago
    Server notifications gone berserk. Cleaning up old tags, seeing as Gmail is so very fond of encouraging archival instead of deletion. I've developed habits of using mail for all kinds of notifications because it tends to work with other services, and it mostly works with Gmail too, exception deletion it a totally pathological case. All they'd needed to do would be to queue large operations in the background...

by Jedd 9y ago

bravura 9y ago

Do you use gmail or inbox now? Can you describe your workflow? One issue I have with gmail is that it takes a million clicks and like 10 seconds to filter email so that I never see that sender/subject/whatever again. Do you have a solution?

Jedd 9y ago
I use gmail app on mobile (and Nine for talking to work Exchange server). I don't use Priority inbox feature. I use incoming filters to apply labels. I try to process each message once - and am happy to archive anything non-actionable. For mail I don't wish to receive or keep, I'll take the time to stop it being sent to me, rather than set up a filter/blocker at my end. For mail I only want to be able to search for later I'll filter to auto-archive on receipt. I try to avoid using my inbox as a todo list - having a separate task tracker makes this possible (different tools vary the ease of this, of course). I suspect most people who struggle with email don't have a task tracker (or if they do, they aren't using that properly either) but that's based on a relatively small set of anecdata. When you say it takes a million clicks and 10 seconds to filter email - do you mean to create a new filter on an arbitrary email? How often are you creating new filters?
- bravura 9y ago
  For mail I don't wish to receive or keep, I'll take the time to stop it being sent to me, rather than set up a filter/blocker at my end. How? Through unsubscribes? I try to avoid using my inbox as a todo list - having a separate task tracker makes this possible (different tools vary the ease of this, of course). So on mobile you are switching back and forth between apps a bunch? While you process email? I just want to understand the workflow a bit better. I suspect most people who struggle with email don't have a task tracker (or if they do, they aren't using that properly either) How do you use a task tracker correctly/incorrectly? * When you say it takes a million clicks and 10 seconds to filter email - do you mean to create a new filter on an arbitrary email? How often are you creating new filters?* Yeah. I have a lot of transactional emails that I want to archive. Maybe if I sat down for two hours I'd be done. My personal inbox is a mess.
  - Jedd 9y ago
    I should mention I'm not fantastic at this stuff - it takes consistent effort to maintain, and of course we all have our unique challenges and preferences. I'd recommend searching around for some blogs that go into more detail on workflows, and reading Getting Things Done (Dave Allen). I've tried to adopt some of the key habits he describes. Yes - I take the effort to unsubscribe from unwanted mail. These days much easier, as the unsubscribe link is usually to be found in the email itself. (In the olden days it was a bit trickier, getting yourself off lists.) Worst case I'll mark it as spam. The intent is to not have my mail archive crufted up with stuff I don't want - it reduces search efficacy later. On mobile I usually don't do a lot of mail 'processing' -- phones frustrate me, and I defer most things to when I have a decent keyboard & screen in front of me. I do have trello and trello-add-card (widget) on my phone's home page, and the latter is a fast way to cut-n-paste new items into. There's also the option to forward email to your private trello board/inbox using the obfuscated email address they provide for each board. During your nightly task review you would then tidy up the card title & description. How do you use a task-tracker correctly ... now that's a big question :) Biggest thing for me is that I trust that when something goes into my task tracker, I can get rid of it from email, my brain, post-it notes, etc. Sensible columns categories, thoughtful card names, learn the keyboard shortcuts (desktop web trello client in my case), colour coding, try to make cards describe actionable steps, 'next steps' should be do-able right now (cards with dependencies can't be 'in progress', f.e.). Is there a requirement that you observe or interact with each of the transactional emails you're receiving? Is it something that could be handled by a script, log analyser, etc? Or when you say you want to archive them, do you mean the time-consuming process is identifying candidates for manual or automatic archival?
bobwaycott 9y ago
Keyboard shortcuts[0]. Unsubscribe links. [0]: Keyboard shortcut for More > arrow down to Filter messages like these > adjust rules if needed > Enter

untangle 9y ago

> Gmail is blazingly fast I would say that gmail performance is well above adequate – especially in search. But try Fastmail if you want to see blazing.

tjoff 9y ago
Uhm, people think gmail is fast? I can fetch a brand new page on my phone over 4G faster than browsing gmail on an i7 desktop. And fast search? Only if you don't have any desire to find anything.
Hasknewbie 9y ago
I've seen this claim several times in this thread now. Having used Fastmail since 2013, how is it blazingly fast since its UI will randomly perform a full reload when you switch back to its tab? It happens multiple times a day. The last time I've had Gmail suddenly decide to reload the page the moment I need to use it? Never.

vidarh 9y ago

> Gmail is blazingly fast - I've not seen it stall or choke or any tasks Try to delete a few thousand messages at a time, and see it not just choke, but cause timeouts or 500 errors when you try to reload the inbox in another tab. At least it consistently does this for me over several accounts, both regular Gmail and paid apps accounts.

singham 9y ago
I have deleted thousands of google group messages and never found any problem. Maybe it is just for you.
- vidarh 9y ago
  Google groups is entirely different to Gmail in behaviour.
Jedd 9y ago
Look, fair call, I've never tried to delete thousands of messages in one go. What kind of workflow do you have where you need to delete a few thousand messages, and how often does that happen?
- vacri 9y ago
  Testing/QA accounts are one use-case where you can get a ton of mail.
- vidarh 9y ago
  Server notifications gone berserk. Cleaning up old tags, seeing as Gmail is so very fond of encouraging archival instead of deletion. I've developed habits of using mail for all kinds of notifications because it tends to work with other services, and it mostly works with Gmail too, exception deletion it a totally pathological case. All they'd needed to do would be to queue large operations in the background...