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I'm about as far left as they come, like campaigning for Sanders left, but I have some serious concerns about this. There has been a serious effort to label ev

I'm about as far left as they come, like campaigning for Sanders left, but I have some serious concerns about this. There has been a serious effort to label everyone that disagrees with Israel's growing apartheid policies toward the Palestinian people as antisemitic hate criminals. I worry that this sort of corporate vigilanteism is going to make it effectively illegal to disagree with the narratives sponsored by the wealthiest members of our society.

gremlinsinc 9y ago
Lefty here too (So left I wrote Bernie in, hoping Trump would win just to stick it to the DNC) - and not sad I did, because the Rep. party is literally in a suicide spiral off Trump tower... I'm totally totally appalled..by Saturday's events..and part of me rejoices at Cloudflare/Google/Godaddy fighting Nazi's... but a part of me - the techy/privacy part is screaming MY GOD WHAT Are we Letting them do in the name of 'Anti-Hate' -- giving everyone a label, or making them fit in a box is a scary precipice to go over. I hope and pray we can find better ways to combat the hate, I think the leaders at google are well meaning in this, but this screams to me that something bigger and deadlier could be unleashed as a result. We need to be REALLY careful how we start self-policing the internet.
- Danihan 9y ago
  I'm not sure why people can't just dislike (or hate) whomever they want to? Isn't that the whole point of Freedom of Association? Everyone dislikes certain individuals, or groups of people. Sometimes it's for petty, wrongheaded reasons. Sometimes it's for well-thought out, valid reasons. Sometimes it's ideological, sometimes it's pragmatic. Sometimes it changes over time, sometimes it doesn't. I don't understand the emotional / viewpoint policing people seem to want to engage in lately.
  - gremlinsinc 9y ago
    I just watched a video -- where a housewife was calling for Jews to go back to the gas chambers, or well go to the gas chambers for the first time--because she doesn't believe it ever happened in the first place.. She wants her children to have a chance at a good life, and can't as long as Jews are alive... How are 14 million jews a threat to millions of white people? It baffles my brain their logic or lack thereof... so the answer is NO you can't HATE when your words of HATE include words about killing, and committing acts of Genocide and LOTS of white supremacists talk of genocide. Because we just ignore it--and well, remember how that worked out for Germany.. but but it can't happen in America right? Ask that of the Germans who were alive in 1920 if they could foresee 1941..
    - Danihan 9y ago
      There are already laws against terroristic threats, as well as criminal conspiracy.
      - pas 9y ago
        There's no law/rule/policy against organizing a party centered on racism. Nothing else. Just workers and whites first. (And we happen to precisely know who happens to be properly white.) And lo and behold, the workers part will become irrelevant. And non party member people will start to have a lower life expectancy after this Party gaining power. And it's not okay. Rationally there are limits on speech. And yes, it's borderline impossible to foresee what should have been allowed yet got banned, but it's still a better (more rational) option than letting very short sighted (so ignorant racists) gain power. Sure, maybe censorship will have a Streisand effect, maybe there needa to be an "index" of banned content with a maximally precise explanation and refutation of it.
    - eighthnate 9y ago
      They can hate. It's called freedom. As long as they don't act on it and commit a crime, they are allowed to hate as much as they want. > Ask that of the Germans who were alive in 1920 if they could foresee 1941.. Too bad germany had censorship. Atheists hate on christians. Christians hate on atheists. Democrats hate on trump and republicans and vice versa. There are blacks who hate on whites. Whites who hate on asians. Asians who hate on whomever they hate. Being able to hate and love is an essential part of being a free human being. > but but it can't happen in America right? Dozens of native tribes were wiped out worse than jews in ww2. Many native peoples were completely wipe out. It's not about what can or can't happen in america. It's about freedom and individual rights. > Ask that of the Germans who were alive in 1920 if they could foresee 1941.. Yeah... A significant portion of germans were attacked/marginalized/silenced. Millions of germans became disillusioned. That's how you get Nazi Germany. Silencing and marginalizing americans and taking away our freedoms is a recipe for disaster. Not only is that going to make these people more extreme and more angry, it's going to attract millions of moderate americans who don't want nothing to do with extremism.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- hfourm 9y ago
  One thing a co-worker brought up recently is how terrifyingly "mob" like the online sphere has become. From twitter to facebook to etc. Media is now reactionary to what people want, and they can tell what people want by "trending topics", which are essentially the wills of a mob. I could expand but I think this gets the gist of my fears out there.
  - AckSyn 9y ago
    Social "justice" at work folks. Being a near oxymoron, it would be laughable if it weren't so sad.
- ucaetano 9y ago
  Check the actual project, it has nothing to do with what you're talking about. It is just an index of news articles talking about hate crime. > This page lists media reports, collected by Google News, about hate crimes and bias incidents.
  - gremlinsinc 9y ago
    Could start out that way, and that wouldn't be all that bad, my mind kind of runs to the worst case scenario sometimes--but bring AI into the mix and they could find out their own things from all the data, and pivot to something totally different.
- propogandist 9y ago
  it's interesting that one minor incident (that's gotten endless press coverage) has given one side enough momentum to push through all kinds of unfavorable initiatives using the hysteria around the event as their smokescreen. this is all part of the big agenda
calimac 9y ago
Why don't I hear Air Horns blaring? Larry Flint fought for the right to publish Hustler under the first amendment protecting free speech no matter how offensive. Time changes views of what's offensive. Imaging PornHub in the 1970's? The idea of building lists of bad people and to target people is something that does not end well. Most people who support this corporate vigilantism do so because it aligns with the virtue signaling groupthink political social belief structure. The key point is that if you strip away social justification you can see that you're supporting the targeting and discrimination against an individual based on their beliefs. You are discriminating against people based on what you perceive to be their beliefs. The platform power players, the plantation owners over at Google, FB, CF, and other monopolies, depend on useful idiots who believe they're in the cool crowd and thus protected. The idiots may be safe for now, but not for long. Eventually the barrel will be pointed at them once their purpose is exhausted. I have one google search that will depict the fate of those who usher in this social corporate vigilantism "night of the long knives". Please realize that we are living in an environment that continues to challenge the mind's ability to stay rooted in foundational objective logic. This digital world is influencing our global beliefs more than ever. Ask who wins?
ucaetano 9y ago
> This page lists media reports, collected by Google News, about hate crimes and bias incidents. This project is just a list of news reports talking about hate crime. Take a look at the actual project: https://projects.propublica.org/hate-news-index/ https://projects.propublica.org/hate-news-index/
gozur88 9y ago
Yep. The problem with this sort of thing is the definition of "hate crime" will stretch and grow to cover a whole lot of people to whom it shouldn't apply. Also, they're inevitably going to make mistakes. How are they going to compensate the victims?
- the_d00d 9y ago
  Excellent point. The labeling is sure to be flawed and studies using it as a data source will treat it as absolute truth/substitution for thought.

gremlinsinc 9y ago

Lefty here too (So left I wrote Bernie in, hoping Trump would win just to stick it to the DNC) - and not sad I did, because the Rep. party is literally in a suicide spiral off Trump tower... I'm totally totally appalled..by Saturday's events..and part of me rejoices at Cloudflare/Google/Godaddy fighting Nazi's... but a part of me - the techy/privacy part is screaming MY GOD WHAT Are we Letting them do in the name of 'Anti-Hate' -- giving everyone a label, or making them fit in a box is a scary precipice to go over. I hope and pray we can find better ways to combat the hate, I think the leaders at google are well meaning in this, but this screams to me that something bigger and deadlier could be unleashed as a result. We need to be REALLY careful how we start self-policing the internet.

Danihan 9y ago
I'm not sure why people can't just dislike (or hate) whomever they want to? Isn't that the whole point of Freedom of Association? Everyone dislikes certain individuals, or groups of people. Sometimes it's for petty, wrongheaded reasons. Sometimes it's for well-thought out, valid reasons. Sometimes it's ideological, sometimes it's pragmatic. Sometimes it changes over time, sometimes it doesn't. I don't understand the emotional / viewpoint policing people seem to want to engage in lately.
- gremlinsinc 9y ago
  I just watched a video -- where a housewife was calling for Jews to go back to the gas chambers, or well go to the gas chambers for the first time--because she doesn't believe it ever happened in the first place.. She wants her children to have a chance at a good life, and can't as long as Jews are alive... How are 14 million jews a threat to millions of white people? It baffles my brain their logic or lack thereof... so the answer is NO you can't HATE when your words of HATE include words about killing, and committing acts of Genocide and LOTS of white supremacists talk of genocide. Because we just ignore it--and well, remember how that worked out for Germany.. but but it can't happen in America right? Ask that of the Germans who were alive in 1920 if they could foresee 1941..
  - Danihan 9y ago
    There are already laws against terroristic threats, as well as criminal conspiracy.
    - pas 9y ago
      There's no law/rule/policy against organizing a party centered on racism. Nothing else. Just workers and whites first. (And we happen to precisely know who happens to be properly white.) And lo and behold, the workers part will become irrelevant. And non party member people will start to have a lower life expectancy after this Party gaining power. And it's not okay. Rationally there are limits on speech. And yes, it's borderline impossible to foresee what should have been allowed yet got banned, but it's still a better (more rational) option than letting very short sighted (so ignorant racists) gain power. Sure, maybe censorship will have a Streisand effect, maybe there needa to be an "index" of banned content with a maximally precise explanation and refutation of it.
  - eighthnate 9y ago
    They can hate. It's called freedom. As long as they don't act on it and commit a crime, they are allowed to hate as much as they want. > Ask that of the Germans who were alive in 1920 if they could foresee 1941.. Too bad germany had censorship. Atheists hate on christians. Christians hate on atheists. Democrats hate on trump and republicans and vice versa. There are blacks who hate on whites. Whites who hate on asians. Asians who hate on whomever they hate. Being able to hate and love is an essential part of being a free human being. > but but it can't happen in America right? Dozens of native tribes were wiped out worse than jews in ww2. Many native peoples were completely wipe out. It's not about what can or can't happen in america. It's about freedom and individual rights. > Ask that of the Germans who were alive in 1920 if they could foresee 1941.. Yeah... A significant portion of germans were attacked/marginalized/silenced. Millions of germans became disillusioned. That's how you get Nazi Germany. Silencing and marginalizing americans and taking away our freedoms is a recipe for disaster. Not only is that going to make these people more extreme and more angry, it's going to attract millions of moderate americans who don't want nothing to do with extremism.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
hfourm 9y ago
One thing a co-worker brought up recently is how terrifyingly "mob" like the online sphere has become. From twitter to facebook to etc. Media is now reactionary to what people want, and they can tell what people want by "trending topics", which are essentially the wills of a mob. I could expand but I think this gets the gist of my fears out there.
- AckSyn 9y ago
  Social "justice" at work folks. Being a near oxymoron, it would be laughable if it weren't so sad.
ucaetano 9y ago
Check the actual project, it has nothing to do with what you're talking about. It is just an index of news articles talking about hate crime. > This page lists media reports, collected by Google News, about hate crimes and bias incidents.
- gremlinsinc 9y ago
  Could start out that way, and that wouldn't be all that bad, my mind kind of runs to the worst case scenario sometimes--but bring AI into the mix and they could find out their own things from all the data, and pivot to something totally different.
propogandist 9y ago
it's interesting that one minor incident (that's gotten endless press coverage) has given one side enough momentum to push through all kinds of unfavorable initiatives using the hysteria around the event as their smokescreen. this is all part of the big agenda

calimac 9y ago

Why don't I hear Air Horns blaring? Larry Flint fought for the right to publish Hustler under the first amendment protecting free speech no matter how offensive. Time changes views of what's offensive. Imaging PornHub in the 1970's? The idea of building lists of bad people and to target people is something that does not end well. Most people who support this corporate vigilantism do so because it aligns with the virtue signaling groupthink political social belief structure. The key point is that if you strip away social justification you can see that you're supporting the targeting and discrimination against an individual based on their beliefs. You are discriminating against people based on what you perceive to be their beliefs. The platform power players, the plantation owners over at Google, FB, CF, and other monopolies, depend on useful idiots who believe they're in the cool crowd and thus protected. The idiots may be safe for now, but not for long. Eventually the barrel will be pointed at them once their purpose is exhausted. I have one google search that will depict the fate of those who usher in this social corporate vigilantism "night of the long knives". Please realize that we are living in an environment that continues to challenge the mind's ability to stay rooted in foundational objective logic. This digital world is influencing our global beliefs more than ever. Ask who wins?

ucaetano 9y ago

> This page lists media reports, collected by Google News, about hate crimes and bias incidents. This project is just a list of news reports talking about hate crime. Take a look at the actual project: https://projects.propublica.org/hate-news-index/ https://projects.propublica.org/hate-news-index/

gozur88 9y ago

Yep. The problem with this sort of thing is the definition of "hate crime" will stretch and grow to cover a whole lot of people to whom it shouldn't apply. Also, they're inevitably going to make mistakes. How are they going to compensate the victims?

the_d00d 9y ago
Excellent point. The labeling is sure to be flawed and studies using it as a data source will treat it as absolute truth/substitution for thought.