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And interview, how? And find it, how? Who will recommend them? You're asking why they don't just eat cake. These things aren't impossible, just so much harder

And interview, how? And find it, how? Who will recommend them? You're asking why they don't just eat cake. These things aren't impossible, just so much harder that my friends (One in Idaho, one in Kansas) haven't been able to manage it, and not for lack of trying. It has been hard to watch them floundering and begging for help I don't have to give.

alexbanks 9y ago
The post you're responding to is the type of stuff that is difficult to decipher r.e. "In the Bay Area it's easy to start a company/get a new job." There's a fine line between "It's relatively easy to get a new job/start a company" and "Just get a new job to pay them to relocate."
uiri 9y ago
I don't mean to minimize your friends' difficulties, but these are solvable problems. I am also not the person to whom you are replying. Don't include a mailing address on the resume. If you can past the resume screen, the company may be more amenable to a non-local candidate. Most of Idaho is fairly close to Portland, OR and Seattle, WA. Paying for non-local candidate's flights, meals, and hotels is fairly standard. Kansas is a bit more difficult obviously since it is farther. Did they lose their whole network when they moved away from the Bay Area? Or did they never live/work in the Bay Area in the first place? It is still possible to leverage one's extended network for opportunities.
- WalterSear 9y ago
  It's complicated. I wrote a paragraph or so about it and deleted it, thinking the reasons were either obvious or too specific to their situations. Over five years, I guess they've lost what network they have from when they lived here - I definitely hear and see them less and less, and for the last few years it's really just been about seeing if I have any leads for them :| I don't think they are being dinged explicitly for their location, but they aren't getting the attention that I do. There are reasons enough for that, that don't involve prejudiced recruiters, though I do think they are being judged as second tier due to their current employment, and their employers location. Their employers are definitely down market. Moreover, their skillset has certainly atrophied over they left. So much so that I can no longer send jobs their way - there isn't a fit. Things are starting to look a little Willie Loman-esque. Is all of this because they moved out of the valley? They would probably have similar struggles here, but they would also have recruiters banging down their door.
ryandrake 9y ago
Yea, that's why I live in the Bay Area. Not because I'm so in love with it but because if I move to Flyover, Arkansas, and end up losing/hating the job, where the hell am I going to go? That's right--moving again!
- pavel_lishin 9y ago
  > That's right--moving again! Why is that bad? Is it a question of inherent stability, or do you have a wife and child who don't want to get dragged around on your job-leash?
  - ryandrake 9y ago
    Sure, family, children, friends, community ties. The things that make constant moving a pain in the ass as you get older.
pavel_lishin 9y ago
> And interview, how? And find it, how? Who will recommend them? I got a job in New York, while living in Dallas. Interview: by flying in on an airplane, staying in a cheap hotel, and lining up a few interviews a day for a few days. Finding it: There's not a shortage of job sites, or recruiters breaking down your inbox. Recommendations: your former coworkers and friends won't assume you get lead poisoning in the rust belt; they can still recommend you to others, and jobs to you.
- vonmoltke 9y ago
  I just recently moved from Dallas to New York, and it was only after years of frustration and being ignored by almost everyone outside of Texas not named Amazon (and most companies in Texas that weren't in Dallas). I didn't have recruiters breaking down my inbox. My submissions on job sites seemed to be going in to black holes. If I got multiple interviews in a month I considered myself lucky. I didn't have any former co-workers outside of DFW to call on, and very few inside it. I'm willing to accept that I'm unusual, but people in this thread are making it sound like I'm a unicorn. I think this industry has serious geographic myopia, and that it is one of the reasons the "talent shortage" is more severe than it needs to be.

alexbanks 9y ago

The post you're responding to is the type of stuff that is difficult to decipher r.e. "In the Bay Area it's easy to start a company/get a new job." There's a fine line between "It's relatively easy to get a new job/start a company" and "Just get a new job to pay them to relocate."

uiri 9y ago

I don't mean to minimize your friends' difficulties, but these are solvable problems. I am also not the person to whom you are replying. Don't include a mailing address on the resume. If you can past the resume screen, the company may be more amenable to a non-local candidate. Most of Idaho is fairly close to Portland, OR and Seattle, WA. Paying for non-local candidate's flights, meals, and hotels is fairly standard. Kansas is a bit more difficult obviously since it is farther. Did they lose their whole network when they moved away from the Bay Area? Or did they never live/work in the Bay Area in the first place? It is still possible to leverage one's extended network for opportunities.

WalterSear 9y ago
It's complicated. I wrote a paragraph or so about it and deleted it, thinking the reasons were either obvious or too specific to their situations. Over five years, I guess they've lost what network they have from when they lived here - I definitely hear and see them less and less, and for the last few years it's really just been about seeing if I have any leads for them :| I don't think they are being dinged explicitly for their location, but they aren't getting the attention that I do. There are reasons enough for that, that don't involve prejudiced recruiters, though I do think they are being judged as second tier due to their current employment, and their employers location. Their employers are definitely down market. Moreover, their skillset has certainly atrophied over they left. So much so that I can no longer send jobs their way - there isn't a fit. Things are starting to look a little Willie Loman-esque. Is all of this because they moved out of the valley? They would probably have similar struggles here, but they would also have recruiters banging down their door.

ryandrake 9y ago

Yea, that's why I live in the Bay Area. Not because I'm so in love with it but because if I move to Flyover, Arkansas, and end up losing/hating the job, where the hell am I going to go? That's right--moving again!

pavel_lishin 9y ago
> That's right--moving again! Why is that bad? Is it a question of inherent stability, or do you have a wife and child who don't want to get dragged around on your job-leash?
- ryandrake 9y ago
  Sure, family, children, friends, community ties. The things that make constant moving a pain in the ass as you get older.

pavel_lishin 9y ago

> And interview, how? And find it, how? Who will recommend them? I got a job in New York, while living in Dallas. Interview: by flying in on an airplane, staying in a cheap hotel, and lining up a few interviews a day for a few days. Finding it: There's not a shortage of job sites, or recruiters breaking down your inbox. Recommendations: your former coworkers and friends won't assume you get lead poisoning in the rust belt; they can still recommend you to others, and jobs to you.

vonmoltke 9y ago
I just recently moved from Dallas to New York, and it was only after years of frustration and being ignored by almost everyone outside of Texas not named Amazon (and most companies in Texas that weren't in Dallas). I didn't have recruiters breaking down my inbox. My submissions on job sites seemed to be going in to black holes. If I got multiple interviews in a month I considered myself lucky. I didn't have any former co-workers outside of DFW to call on, and very few inside it. I'm willing to accept that I'm unusual, but people in this thread are making it sound like I'm a unicorn. I think this industry has serious geographic myopia, and that it is one of the reasons the "talent shortage" is more severe than it needs to be.