4 ms·

The lies that software developers tell

14 points by daveambrose 16y ago

ryanwaggoner 16y ago
This guy seems like a real jackass.
- nopassrecover 16y ago
  Anyone who has this kind of attitude is going to bring out the worst in both the selection process for his team and the quality output of that team. It is little wonder that his experience has been so poor, I don't know a good developer that would work for something like this.
- GiraffeNecktie 16y ago
  And nothing in his bio indicates any first hand experience with managing development work http://startups.typepad.com/about.html http://startups.typepad.com/about.html.
j_baker 16y ago
I have to disagree with a few of these, especially #3. Slow code isn't necessarily bad code. In fact, speeding it up may turn it into bad code.
rje 16y ago
"I was here working until 4am" This happens. Sometimes we get urgent (or unreasonable) requests for features and not enough time to implement them. I'd much rather be doing /anything/ else at the time usually. Like sleeping for instance. "It is the server or bandwidth" To be fair, sometimes it's both. "With the product debugged, we need to go back into the code and speed it up" I'd much rather get to a solid and tested implementation that we can revise to improve performance than never get anything working at all.
- dasil003 16y ago
  Also on the 4am thing there is this: Which is true if you include "off and on" 10 minute coding periods Showing that not only does he not understand how programming is done, but he also lacks basic knowledge of how to use quotation marks.
humbledrone 16y ago
I really wish I had enough karma to downvote this article. I've certainly heard such lies from bad developers before, but the author frames some of the lies as if all developers tell them. As a developer myself, I found the article to be snide and insulting.
- ax0n 16y ago
  Articles can't get downvoted, only flagged. Personally, I completely disagree with it, but I wouldn't flag it because of its relevance to HN. I only flag spam, linkbait and off-topic stuff, usually.
alextgordon 16y ago
Let me be devil's advocate: 1. I could do that in a weekend This is a figure of speech. It's not literally true, it just serves to reinforce a point. It means that they can do X in a relatively short period of time. 2. It's completely modular It's perfectly possible to write modular code. It's also perfectly possible to take non-modular code and make it modular. I've done both. 3. With the product debugged, we need to go back into the code and speed it up. Performance issues are bugs just like anything else. They must be triaged. If it's major, then you can't just leave it in. If it's minor, then maybe you can. Whether the fix could cause more bugs is irrelevant: there's always this risk when changing any code (no matter how large or small the fix). 7. It is the server or bandwidth It's not unusual for resources or bandwidth to be an issue. You can't always blame it on the code.
ramy_d 16y ago
I... I have to reply to this ridiculous article. First, i want to point this guy out. This guy is called Don Rainey and he works for Grotech Ventures http://www.grotech.com/ http://www.grotech.com/ which like to show how many CEOs they have. Straight up, grotech ventures doesn't know how to properly render websites, see here, http://www.procrastinatorstangent.com/rd/hacker_news/grotech.jpg http://www.procrastinatorstangent.com/rd/hacker_news/grotech... so tweak that, Don. no - but seriously, I came here to write something important, and here it is: I don't know if Don is managing _right now_, but judging by this article, i'm going to assume he is (even though this is probably a list of things not to say when doing a pitch to him). Now Don has been managing peeps like most us at HN for 30 years. That's crazy. can you imagine doing something for 30 years? I can barely imagine doing the same something for 5, but he's done this for 30. That means he has experience. Now, I don't know Don, but today, on this cool sunday, Don has summed up 30 years of experience to me into 8 rude complaints. He has pointed out flaws he has seen over and over again without pointing out any solutions or constructive criticisms or proper examples to look up to. And that to me is like a child complaining. dev - "it's modular, so we ca-" don - "no." what? what kind of conversation is _that_? can you not think of 1 modular application ever built? By the comments here, some people clearly have. Off the top of my head, here is one modular project http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irrlicht_Engine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irrlicht_Engine and here is one of its modules http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OGRE3D http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OGRE3D, here are some of ITS modules: http://www.ogre3d.org/addonforums/ http://www.ogre3d.org/addonforums/ and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CEGUI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CEGUI Now these and other examples versus his points could be argued as exceptions, and from Don's point of view, as a VC, then yeah - probably few and far apart. But what does that say about what he is talking about? what does that say about VC pitching? and promise offerings? and the fucking nerve racking experience that must be to have to face off a Negative Nancy like him for money. Don Rainey comes off as the kind of guy who "knows when it's not right" but has no direction into how to achieve something that is satisfactory even for himself. http://clientsfromhell.net/post/697519797/me-lets-talk-about-color-first-do-you-have-any http://clientsfromhell.net/post/697519797/me-lets-talk-about... http://clientsfromhell.net/post/742771834/me-could-you-please-provide-us-with-details-of http://clientsfromhell.net/post/742771834/me-could-you-pleas... http://clientsfromhell.net/post/789388118/while-developing-an-affiliate-website-for-one-of http://clientsfromhell.net/post/789388118/while-developing-a...
tzs 16y ago
I'm curious. How many have better bandwidth at work than home, especially for games and porn? At work we have 9 Mbit up and down. At home on Comcast I get typically 10-20 down (regardless of speedboost or whatever they call it) and 2 or 3 up. Of course work has an SLA so in theory should have less downtime, but they have actually been not too different (an SLA really means you will get generous credits for outages, not that you won't have them!) Overall I'd have to say that home wins.
ax0n 16y ago
I've probably seen at least one example of each of these at some point in my career (Education, consulting, entertainment, financial and online sales industries, 2 of which were startups). Most of the developers who act like this didn't last long. I have also seen all of these "myths" busted. Sometimes the server really is anemic. I've seen a new feature set added in a weekend of 4am hacking sessions that involved code, not cola and porn. I've seen people get RIGHTFULLY blamed for their shitty code. And I've seen the UI get tweaked so that it works so flawlessly for the demo that it got opened to private beta the next day. People who are this acerbic and jaded about things in their line of work should consider doing something more interesting and fun with their time.
kls 16y ago
It's completely modular If they are not building systems that are modular, then you are most likely nickle and dime'ing you development strategy and getting junior developers when you need seniors. This will always result in spaghetti code and the famous "we need to rewrite this" to any system they did not write.

14 points by daveambrose 16y ago

ryanwaggoner 16y ago

This guy seems like a real jackass.

nopassrecover 16y ago
Anyone who has this kind of attitude is going to bring out the worst in both the selection process for his team and the quality output of that team. It is little wonder that his experience has been so poor, I don't know a good developer that would work for something like this.
GiraffeNecktie 16y ago
And nothing in his bio indicates any first hand experience with managing development work http://startups.typepad.com/about.html http://startups.typepad.com/about.html.

j_baker 16y ago

I have to disagree with a few of these, especially #3. Slow code isn't necessarily bad code. In fact, speeding it up may turn it into bad code.

rje 16y ago

"I was here working until 4am" This happens. Sometimes we get urgent (or unreasonable) requests for features and not enough time to implement them. I'd much rather be doing /anything/ else at the time usually. Like sleeping for instance. "It is the server or bandwidth" To be fair, sometimes it's both. "With the product debugged, we need to go back into the code and speed it up" I'd much rather get to a solid and tested implementation that we can revise to improve performance than never get anything working at all.

dasil003 16y ago
Also on the 4am thing there is this: Which is true if you include "off and on" 10 minute coding periods Showing that not only does he not understand how programming is done, but he also lacks basic knowledge of how to use quotation marks.

humbledrone 16y ago

I really wish I had enough karma to downvote this article. I've certainly heard such lies from bad developers before, but the author frames some of the lies as if all developers tell them. As a developer myself, I found the article to be snide and insulting.

ax0n 16y ago
Articles can't get downvoted, only flagged. Personally, I completely disagree with it, but I wouldn't flag it because of its relevance to HN. I only flag spam, linkbait and off-topic stuff, usually.

alextgordon 16y ago

Let me be devil's advocate: 1. I could do that in a weekend This is a figure of speech. It's not literally true, it just serves to reinforce a point. It means that they can do X in a relatively short period of time. 2. It's completely modular It's perfectly possible to write modular code. It's also perfectly possible to take non-modular code and make it modular. I've done both. 3. With the product debugged, we need to go back into the code and speed it up. Performance issues are bugs just like anything else. They must be triaged. If it's major, then you can't just leave it in. If it's minor, then maybe you can. Whether the fix could cause more bugs is irrelevant: there's always this risk when changing any code (no matter how large or small the fix). 7. It is the server or bandwidth It's not unusual for resources or bandwidth to be an issue. You can't always blame it on the code.

ramy_d 16y ago

I... I have to reply to this ridiculous article. First, i want to point this guy out. This guy is called Don Rainey and he works for Grotech Ventures http://www.grotech.com/ http://www.grotech.com/ which like to show how many CEOs they have. Straight up, grotech ventures doesn't know how to properly render websites, see here, http://www.procrastinatorstangent.com/rd/hacker_news/grotech.jpg http://www.procrastinatorstangent.com/rd/hacker_news/grotech... so tweak that, Don. no - but seriously, I came here to write something important, and here it is: I don't know if Don is managing _right now_, but judging by this article, i'm going to assume he is (even though this is probably a list of things not to say when doing a pitch to him). Now Don has been managing peeps like most us at HN for 30 years. That's crazy. can you imagine doing something for 30 years? I can barely imagine doing the same something for 5, but he's done this for 30. That means he has experience. Now, I don't know Don, but today, on this cool sunday, Don has summed up 30 years of experience to me into 8 rude complaints. He has pointed out flaws he has seen over and over again without pointing out any solutions or constructive criticisms or proper examples to look up to. And that to me is like a child complaining. dev - "it's modular, so we ca-" don - "no." what? what kind of conversation is _that_? can you not think of 1 modular application ever built? By the comments here, some people clearly have. Off the top of my head, here is one modular project http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irrlicht_Engine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irrlicht_Engine and here is one of its modules http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OGRE3D http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OGRE3D, here are some of ITS modules: http://www.ogre3d.org/addonforums/ http://www.ogre3d.org/addonforums/ and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CEGUI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CEGUI Now these and other examples versus his points could be argued as exceptions, and from Don's point of view, as a VC, then yeah - probably few and far apart. But what does that say about what he is talking about? what does that say about VC pitching? and promise offerings? and the fucking nerve racking experience that must be to have to face off a Negative Nancy like him for money. Don Rainey comes off as the kind of guy who "knows when it's not right" but has no direction into how to achieve something that is satisfactory even for himself. http://clientsfromhell.net/post/697519797/me-lets-talk-about-color-first-do-you-have-any http://clientsfromhell.net/post/697519797/me-lets-talk-about... http://clientsfromhell.net/post/742771834/me-could-you-please-provide-us-with-details-of http://clientsfromhell.net/post/742771834/me-could-you-pleas... http://clientsfromhell.net/post/789388118/while-developing-an-affiliate-website-for-one-of http://clientsfromhell.net/post/789388118/while-developing-a...

tzs 16y ago

I'm curious. How many have better bandwidth at work than home, especially for games and porn? At work we have 9 Mbit up and down. At home on Comcast I get typically 10-20 down (regardless of speedboost or whatever they call it) and 2 or 3 up. Of course work has an SLA so in theory should have less downtime, but they have actually been not too different (an SLA really means you will get generous credits for outages, not that you won't have them!) Overall I'd have to say that home wins.

ax0n 16y ago

I've probably seen at least one example of each of these at some point in my career (Education, consulting, entertainment, financial and online sales industries, 2 of which were startups). Most of the developers who act like this didn't last long. I have also seen all of these "myths" busted. Sometimes the server really is anemic. I've seen a new feature set added in a weekend of 4am hacking sessions that involved code, not cola and porn. I've seen people get RIGHTFULLY blamed for their shitty code. And I've seen the UI get tweaked so that it works so flawlessly for the demo that it got opened to private beta the next day. People who are this acerbic and jaded about things in their line of work should consider doing something more interesting and fun with their time.

kls 16y ago

It's completely modular If they are not building systems that are modular, then you are most likely nickle and dime'ing you development strategy and getting junior developers when you need seniors. This will always result in spaghetti code and the famous "we need to rewrite this" to any system they did not write.