4 ms·

"concern mom" mentality. All ebike sold in the us have to have a speed limiter, I am limited to 20 miles an hour on a flat road and daily get bypassed by a few

"concern mom" mentality. All ebike sold in the us have to have a speed limiter, I am limited to 20 miles an hour on a flat road and daily get bypassed by a few mph easy.

nerdshoe 9y ago
Other than your damaged pride, is this a problem?
- Retric 9y ago
  20+MPH accidents are dangerous on bicycles and they are also more likely to hit pedestrians due to reduced reaction times.
  - nerdshoe 9y ago
    Now we're getting somewhere. Given that these factors are multiplied with automobiles, shouldn't all vehicle speeds be limited so? I am a firm believer that everything should be limited to 30km/h in urban and residential environments where pedestrian and vehicle traffic coexist.
    - tetromino_ 9y ago
      > Given that these factors are multiplied with automobiles Not a given. At speed, cars handle more securely than bicycles; cars have power brakes, ABS, traction control; modern cars often have automatic collision avoidance systems.
      - bryanlarsen 9y ago
        Even automatic collision avoidance systems don't help if a kid chasing a ball jumps out from between two parked cars right in front of your car. 30KPH car-pedestrian collisions are >> 95% survivable. The fatality rate drops dramatically above that speed. Dropping speed limits to 30Kph in areas with shared infrastructure and strictly enforcing them can drop pedestrian fatality rates all the way to zero: http://www.visionzeroinitiative.com/ http://www.visionzeroinitiative.com/
        Retric 9y ago
        Skyways seem like a better alternative as you increases throughput for both pedestrians and cars. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyway EX: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%2B15 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%2B15 Alternatively, you one or both can go underground. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_city#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_city#United_States) Crystal City VA for example has a huge underground mall that almost completely removes pedestrian tragic outside and connects to the subway system. Sadly, it's not a strait path, but there are ~50 buildings connected and it becomes really useful if you live and or work in the area. (http://www.thecrystalcityshops.com/_files/docs/cc-shops-2014-directory-final.pdf http://www.thecrystalcityshops.com/_files/docs/cc-shops-2014...)
        bryanlarsen 9y ago
        If we had to lower the speed limit to 30kph wherever cars & pedestrians interacted (aka all streets), then magically there would appear money to build separated pedestrian infrastructure like skyways so that politicians could drive faster than 30kph on their routes.
borisj 9y ago
Interesting. My normal flat road pace on my road bike is in the mid 20s.
- wiredfool 9y ago
  Impressive. That would win most time trials at my local club. Have you tried racing?
  - borisj 9y ago
    I've been only doing solo and work rides, but I'm trying to get into amateur racing actually and been psyched out getting into a "serious" group of riders, but hearing that is really encouraging :). Of course, this is only flats, but I do try treat almost every ride as a training ride and push myself, and use the weekends to train as well.
- jrowley 9y ago
  How long can you ride at that speed? I'm wondering because I average around 15 on my commuter bike and i'm thinking of getting something faster for my commute.
  - hedora 9y ago
    I average 12.5-15 on my commute, and max out at 22-23 on flats. I can keep up with most, but not all, ebikes, and am slower than most road bikes. I probably couldn't keep up with you + ebike if you average 15 on a regular bike. I wonder how the governor works. Does it just stop assisting at 20, or does regenerative braking automatically kick in?
  - borisj 9y ago
    15 on a commuter sounds about right -- pretty fast actually for most anything I'd call a commmuter bike. I rode a single speed bike for about 8 years before I upgraded to an entry level Cannondale Supersix Evo, which I got late in the season so I ended up with a really, really good deal on a carbon frame road bike. On flats I have no problem maintaining 20-22mph for longer periods of time, but that's after some training. On sprinty bursts on flats I do high 20s, maybe breaking 30mph. On downhills 35mph and I don't feel comfortably pushing past that. In fact I rarely feel comfortably going that fast -- there are just specific stretches of road and hills where I'm not worried about potholes or surprise traffic. When I started on the road bike doing 15-17mph during rolling-hill after-work rides with minimal intersections and traffic, and I'd say that's comfortably my casual pace that I can keep up for at least 25 miles at a time now, except when I first started I was sweaty and out of breath and now it's an easy commute speed.
hedora 9y ago
That explains why ebikes there are so many rude e-bike riders around here that jack-rabbit start at each stop, passing all the bikes, and then block the bike lane by going slow. They should set the limiters to 25-30mph! [edit: why the downvotes? It is a serious safety concern for me during my daily commute. Setting the max speed a few mph slower than everyone else's cruising speed is clearly hazardous. If they set the governors to 15mph it would also solve the safety issue (since you'd only need to pass each ebike once), but then the technology would fail. Is making them 1-2 mph faster than a bike really that big of an incremental safety issue?]
- petre 9y ago
  The "speed limiter" is esentially a motor cutoff. You can probably do 30 mph, it's just that you need to use your feet, which e-bikers probably don't.
  - indigo0086 9y ago
    It's also considerably heavier. The amount of effort you'd have to put into it (after downshifting) will proably at best give you one or two mph. As for bike behavior, I and many other cyclists consistently have to deal with slow cyclists taking up the entire lane. This is not unique to Ebikers in fact much more common to those without as there are far less on the roads I ride on (SF daily commuter)
    - hedora 9y ago
      Yeah; that happens in south bay too. The difference is that I'm usually done after passing them once, :-)
    - petre 9y ago
      Yes, it is at least 10 kilos havier than a regular bicycle of the same design.
- indigo0086 9y ago
  These limits are arbitrary and for the simple fact that normal bikes can go considerably faster proves that it's not a true researched safety concern.

"concern mom" mentality. All ebike sold in the us have to have a speed limiter, I am limited to 20 miles an hour on a flat road and daily get bypassed by a few mph easy.

nerdshoe 9y ago

Other than your damaged pride, is this a problem?

Retric 9y ago
20+MPH accidents are dangerous on bicycles and they are also more likely to hit pedestrians due to reduced reaction times.
- nerdshoe 9y ago
  Now we're getting somewhere. Given that these factors are multiplied with automobiles, shouldn't all vehicle speeds be limited so? I am a firm believer that everything should be limited to 30km/h in urban and residential environments where pedestrian and vehicle traffic coexist.
  - tetromino_ 9y ago
    > Given that these factors are multiplied with automobiles Not a given. At speed, cars handle more securely than bicycles; cars have power brakes, ABS, traction control; modern cars often have automatic collision avoidance systems.
    - bryanlarsen 9y ago
      Even automatic collision avoidance systems don't help if a kid chasing a ball jumps out from between two parked cars right in front of your car. 30KPH car-pedestrian collisions are >> 95% survivable. The fatality rate drops dramatically above that speed. Dropping speed limits to 30Kph in areas with shared infrastructure and strictly enforcing them can drop pedestrian fatality rates all the way to zero: http://www.visionzeroinitiative.com/ http://www.visionzeroinitiative.com/
      - Retric 9y ago
        Skyways seem like a better alternative as you increases throughput for both pedestrians and cars. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyway EX: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%2B15 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%2B15 Alternatively, you one or both can go underground. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_city#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_city#United_States) Crystal City VA for example has a huge underground mall that almost completely removes pedestrian tragic outside and connects to the subway system. Sadly, it's not a strait path, but there are ~50 buildings connected and it becomes really useful if you live and or work in the area. (http://www.thecrystalcityshops.com/_files/docs/cc-shops-2014-directory-final.pdf http://www.thecrystalcityshops.com/_files/docs/cc-shops-2014...)
        bryanlarsen 9y ago
        If we had to lower the speed limit to 30kph wherever cars & pedestrians interacted (aka all streets), then magically there would appear money to build separated pedestrian infrastructure like skyways so that politicians could drive faster than 30kph on their routes.

borisj 9y ago

Interesting. My normal flat road pace on my road bike is in the mid 20s.

wiredfool 9y ago
Impressive. That would win most time trials at my local club. Have you tried racing?
- borisj 9y ago
  I've been only doing solo and work rides, but I'm trying to get into amateur racing actually and been psyched out getting into a "serious" group of riders, but hearing that is really encouraging :). Of course, this is only flats, but I do try treat almost every ride as a training ride and push myself, and use the weekends to train as well.
jrowley 9y ago
How long can you ride at that speed? I'm wondering because I average around 15 on my commuter bike and i'm thinking of getting something faster for my commute.
- hedora 9y ago
  I average 12.5-15 on my commute, and max out at 22-23 on flats. I can keep up with most, but not all, ebikes, and am slower than most road bikes. I probably couldn't keep up with you + ebike if you average 15 on a regular bike. I wonder how the governor works. Does it just stop assisting at 20, or does regenerative braking automatically kick in?
- borisj 9y ago
  15 on a commuter sounds about right -- pretty fast actually for most anything I'd call a commmuter bike. I rode a single speed bike for about 8 years before I upgraded to an entry level Cannondale Supersix Evo, which I got late in the season so I ended up with a really, really good deal on a carbon frame road bike. On flats I have no problem maintaining 20-22mph for longer periods of time, but that's after some training. On sprinty bursts on flats I do high 20s, maybe breaking 30mph. On downhills 35mph and I don't feel comfortably pushing past that. In fact I rarely feel comfortably going that fast -- there are just specific stretches of road and hills where I'm not worried about potholes or surprise traffic. When I started on the road bike doing 15-17mph during rolling-hill after-work rides with minimal intersections and traffic, and I'd say that's comfortably my casual pace that I can keep up for at least 25 miles at a time now, except when I first started I was sweaty and out of breath and now it's an easy commute speed.

hedora 9y ago

That explains why ebikes there are so many rude e-bike riders around here that jack-rabbit start at each stop, passing all the bikes, and then block the bike lane by going slow. They should set the limiters to 25-30mph! [edit: why the downvotes? It is a serious safety concern for me during my daily commute. Setting the max speed a few mph slower than everyone else's cruising speed is clearly hazardous. If they set the governors to 15mph it would also solve the safety issue (since you'd only need to pass each ebike once), but then the technology would fail. Is making them 1-2 mph faster than a bike really that big of an incremental safety issue?]

petre 9y ago
The "speed limiter" is esentially a motor cutoff. You can probably do 30 mph, it's just that you need to use your feet, which e-bikers probably don't.
- indigo0086 9y ago
  It's also considerably heavier. The amount of effort you'd have to put into it (after downshifting) will proably at best give you one or two mph. As for bike behavior, I and many other cyclists consistently have to deal with slow cyclists taking up the entire lane. This is not unique to Ebikers in fact much more common to those without as there are far less on the roads I ride on (SF daily commuter)
  - hedora 9y ago
    Yeah; that happens in south bay too. The difference is that I'm usually done after passing them once, :-)
  - petre 9y ago
    Yes, it is at least 10 kilos havier than a regular bicycle of the same design.
indigo0086 9y ago
These limits are arbitrary and for the simple fact that normal bikes can go considerably faster proves that it's not a true researched safety concern.