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>The key thing about the public square is interaction with the public. If all that people wanted was free speech they would just go shout in the woods. And the

>The key thing about the public square is interaction with the public. If all that people wanted was free speech they would just go shout in the woods. And the Internet is becoming that. Again anyone can create their own website, nothing is limiting the exercise of their protected speech and if the speech wins in the marketplace of ideas nothing can stop it, and history has shown when speech has won in the marketplace of ideas the people who try to stop it only magnify it. Showing my age a little but look the show Married with Children, it was going to be cancelled until the politicians tried to take it off the air and then it became a hit, or when politicians tried to ban 2 Live Crew's album and they went to the Supreme Court and won, it only promoted the album/speech more. If you have a good enough idea you publish on your own website, that simultaneously all the existing platforms prohibit they are likely going to be doing you a favor in terms of promotion of your idea and your platform(website), but if its a idea that fails in the marketplace of ideas don't expect much one way or another. As to the idea about shouting in the woods, that highlights my point just as much as yours. At some point Facebook.com was just empty woods, they bought it and made it what it is, it was never a public space, in fact in the beginning it was more restrictive limiting the people who could join to people with .edu email addresses, meaning at one point Facebook's platform was less public than it is today. And if they turned the switch back tomorrow, my opinion would be that it wouldn't be a loss of a public space because it never was a public space, it would still admittedly be a loss of some kind. Moreover, I am just not sure these internet platforms have the ability to eliminate public spaces because they were not and never have been public spaces. Nothing, about these platforms ever guaranteed an audience for anyone's speech, in fact they are all subject to disappearing tomorrow due to competition or simply going out of business. Also, I see many alternatives to publishing speech on the internet, admittedly it may be about the same as shouting in empty woods but again even facebook at onetime was empty woods and still may as well be for many content publishers.

ameister14 9y ago
Again anyone can create their own website Sure, but of necessity you'd also need to be your own host, which gets expensive.
syshum 9y ago
>>Again anyone can create their own website, nothing is limiting the exercise of their protected speech Can they though? Domains Registries, Data-centers, ISP, all have terms of service, Storm Front learned that the hard way. So I would not keep claiming "Again anyone can create their own website" because that is factually false Anyone can get a website under the terms of conditions of the massive companies offering web hosting services, domain registrations, Internet Access, and all of the other private pieces need to run a website. This assumes you have the technical knowledge to do so, you are basically claiming Free Speech is only for server admins, dont know how to run your own web server, well make sure you conform to ever increasing strict "acceptable speech" codes if you do not want to be shut down today society has a general aversion to or out right hate for Free Speech, and terms of service are becoming more and more restrictive. Society its self is attacking the concept of Free Expression today far more effectively than any government ever could It would seem this will be how Free Speech dies.... with Thunderous Applause from those too short sighted to see the forest because of a few racist trees.... First they came for the nazi's I did no protest for I am not a nazi... then they came for..... I wonder which group will be next... and How long will it be before they come for me, that something I desire to speak out about will be "wrong think". I am Libertarian so I suspect it will not be long. Authoritarianism is the word of the day
- will_brown 9y ago
  Well think about the pre internet days, how did people exercise their free speech? On a soapbox on the corner? Well maybe, but again you might need a city/county permit depending on the corner, that costs money. Maybe for people outside of yelling distance you need a megaphone, that costs money. To not get arrested for indecency you need clothes, that costs money, or for anyone to take you/your message serious you probably need nice clothes, those cost more money. Want to print and distribute your protected speech, the printing press cost money. I'd say a domain/hosting/web builder can be done cheaper than the printing press and certainly cheaper than getting a city permit. The actual knowledge involved? About 5-10 minutes of YouTube videos. Your right many of the services you might leverage have terms, the real world is not without similar terms. Certainly today it is far cheaper and easier to set up a website for your message than anytime in the internets history. I think free speech like any other right dies through ignorance, lack of historical understanding and just lack of strength of character. To that end anyone can contractually limit their rights as you suggest but it's always been that way, it's not as though the internet was ever free of these terms in the beginning. Don't like the terms, then organize/boycott, take action, and I'm not pretending it's easy to take action against a company like Google, but think it wasn't hard to exercise free speech and fight for civil rights in the face of police, military, fire hoses, etc... It's not the US but think it was easy for Gandhi to be arrested and go on food strikes all those times, or Nelson Mandela to spend the greater part of his life in prison and later become the first Black South African President, or Ali to refuse the draft before the Vietnam war lost public support and giving up his championship (prime of his boxing career) fighting in the courts facing jail? Pick and choose your causes as you wish, that's your right, but using other people private property whether it be real property or an online website that's where your rights end. But be willing to back up your ideals like the great heros above and host nazi parties at your house, let them burn crosses in your yard, but keep in mind your also advocating for everyone else including anti nazis to have the same rights to use your property in the same manner.

ameister14 9y ago

Again anyone can create their own website Sure, but of necessity you'd also need to be your own host, which gets expensive.

syshum 9y ago

>>Again anyone can create their own website, nothing is limiting the exercise of their protected speech Can they though? Domains Registries, Data-centers, ISP, all have terms of service, Storm Front learned that the hard way. So I would not keep claiming "Again anyone can create their own website" because that is factually false Anyone can get a website under the terms of conditions of the massive companies offering web hosting services, domain registrations, Internet Access, and all of the other private pieces need to run a website. This assumes you have the technical knowledge to do so, you are basically claiming Free Speech is only for server admins, dont know how to run your own web server, well make sure you conform to ever increasing strict "acceptable speech" codes if you do not want to be shut down today society has a general aversion to or out right hate for Free Speech, and terms of service are becoming more and more restrictive. Society its self is attacking the concept of Free Expression today far more effectively than any government ever could It would seem this will be how Free Speech dies.... with Thunderous Applause from those too short sighted to see the forest because of a few racist trees.... First they came for the nazi's I did no protest for I am not a nazi... then they came for..... I wonder which group will be next... and How long will it be before they come for me, that something I desire to speak out about will be "wrong think". I am Libertarian so I suspect it will not be long. Authoritarianism is the word of the day

will_brown 9y ago
Well think about the pre internet days, how did people exercise their free speech? On a soapbox on the corner? Well maybe, but again you might need a city/county permit depending on the corner, that costs money. Maybe for people outside of yelling distance you need a megaphone, that costs money. To not get arrested for indecency you need clothes, that costs money, or for anyone to take you/your message serious you probably need nice clothes, those cost more money. Want to print and distribute your protected speech, the printing press cost money. I'd say a domain/hosting/web builder can be done cheaper than the printing press and certainly cheaper than getting a city permit. The actual knowledge involved? About 5-10 minutes of YouTube videos. Your right many of the services you might leverage have terms, the real world is not without similar terms. Certainly today it is far cheaper and easier to set up a website for your message than anytime in the internets history. I think free speech like any other right dies through ignorance, lack of historical understanding and just lack of strength of character. To that end anyone can contractually limit their rights as you suggest but it's always been that way, it's not as though the internet was ever free of these terms in the beginning. Don't like the terms, then organize/boycott, take action, and I'm not pretending it's easy to take action against a company like Google, but think it wasn't hard to exercise free speech and fight for civil rights in the face of police, military, fire hoses, etc... It's not the US but think it was easy for Gandhi to be arrested and go on food strikes all those times, or Nelson Mandela to spend the greater part of his life in prison and later become the first Black South African President, or Ali to refuse the draft before the Vietnam war lost public support and giving up his championship (prime of his boxing career) fighting in the courts facing jail? Pick and choose your causes as you wish, that's your right, but using other people private property whether it be real property or an online website that's where your rights end. But be willing to back up your ideals like the great heros above and host nazi parties at your house, let them burn crosses in your yard, but keep in mind your also advocating for everyone else including anti nazis to have the same rights to use your property in the same manner.