5 ms·

I'm almost 6'2" and I basically won't fly coach anymore. It's miserable. I'd rather not go. Now I'm in the rather fortunate position that with some planning I c

by cletus 9y ago

I'm almost 6'2" and I basically won't fly coach anymore. It's miserable. I'd rather not go. Now I'm in the rather fortunate position that with some planning I can fly in a premium cabin. Many are not. For me legroom is one issue but a bigger one is width. I am wider than a standard domestic coach seat such that if fly in one I'm competing for armrests or I'm hanging out into the aisle or I'm sitting in an uncomfortable position of squeezing my arms in. It's incredibly unpleasant. The biggest problem for most airlines (from my perspective) is that coach continues to shrink and the jump to business can be massive like from $300 to $2000. That's where Premium Economy and things like JetBlue's Even More Legroom are good. But I will optimize to have a longer trip with a layover than fly direct to avoid this problem. For example, I'll fly on American's older 737s and 767s in "First" transcon via DFW or ORD for ~$1000 return rather than $500 in coach direct or $2000+ in business direct (both of the last two on the newer A321Ts). Premium Economy is a mixed bag though. Cathay Pacific's is quite good (with some caveats). British Airways I hear is PE in name only (well, name and cost for some reason). Still, lie flat business class, particularly on international long haul is hard to beat.

ryanmarsh 9y ago
6'3" tall and 44" chest here. I fly almost every week. Anything less than Economy Plus/Premium is pure torture. Even in Economy Plus I still usually bump shoulders with the fellow next to me. If he's big like me we might as well be cuddling. I'm flying Seattle to Boston on Monday. I had to buy first class, there's no fucking way I'm doing that trip in anything less. Did I mention I have back problems (like many Americans). Thank God I have the means and airline status to travel better. It really is a bus in the sky. Might as well have standing room too.
- cletus 9y ago
  You mention a point worth highlighting: status. This is why I fly pretty much exclusively American. Not because American is the best airlines (it is not, but hey it's not United either). But because if I optimized solely for cost I wouldn't have any status on any airline. I'd be the first one bumped. I'd have worse seats and I'd be upgraded less. People like to bitch about how airlines treat them like crap but at the same time they often don't have any loyalty to any airline. What do you expect? Just this last flight from NYC to SFO I got upgraded to (lie-flat) business class for "free" (it cost I think 6 500-mile stickers but I have like 100 of those so who cares?). My AA status also multiplies all the miles I earn on AA and oneworld flights. That's worth something. I just wish AA had PE. Main Cabin "Plus" is not the same thing.
  - eropple 9y ago
    People don't really have loyalty to airlines because the requirements for getting any benefits to that loyalty keep going up-up-up, though. If I fly anywhere, I'm paying for it, and the investment is huge before you even start seeing anything for it. And you couple that with the way airlines treat passengers in general, and the idea of loyalty to one is pretty much "...what?". My business partner, who's been at this longer than me, has JetBlue's Mosaic, but the perks for that are pretty lame given how much money we put through JetBlue.
    - saryant 9y ago
      There are status challenges available to address that issue.
      - eropple 9y ago
        So I fly at least one round-trip a month and I'd never even heard of this. That probably doesn't help with the notion of airline loyalty, yeah?
        saryant 9y ago
        Most are advertised through large employers or direct marketing emails. So if you're sending everything from United to spam, you won't see it. Some airlines still just hand out free status based on your employer (I have Cathay Pacific status through that sort of program despite having never paid for a CX flight). American auto-enrolled me in one earlier this year. Gave me free platinum status for three months and 20 500-mile upgrade certs. The certs were mine and I had those three months to fly 5000 miles to extend status for a year.
        eropple 9y ago
        Now that I know about their existence, I'm totally seeing it. My point is more that this is a super-niche thing and so I'm not surprised that nobody has any loyalty to an airline (which rank down there with people who yell at kids on their lawn for customer satisfaction).
- userbinator 9y ago
  It really is a bus in the sky. I'd say it's worse. The buses I've been on have been far more comfortable than a plane, and I'm not even wide or tall.
  - ryanmarsh 9y ago
    Fair point. I've been on many buses more comfortable than coach on a plane.
    - nojvek 9y ago
      Commute with bus everyday. Definitely more comfy.
      - seanp2k2 9y ago
        I'd much rather take a bus. More room and no fighting for overhead bins. You don't feel like cattle getting rustled into a aluminum cargo container with hundreds of pounds of junk inches above your head. There's also typically not the dreaded middle seat on a bus (2+2, but not like the awful regional jets where it's really a booster seat).
        ascagnel_ 9y ago
        My local train service runs two types of trains: double-decker (with 2/2 seats) and single-decker (with 3/2 seats). The single-level trains cannot comfortably hold three average-size adults, so they effectively have half the capacity.
- foobarian 9y ago
  The sad truth is, airlines won't optimize for the 99th percentile. We tall people just have to grin and bear it. I'm 6'10" and I basically just take the viewpoint that I'm lucky that airplanes exist at all to make it possible to cross such great distances in such short times. But I fly seldom so I'm sure I'd sing a different tune if I had to fly on any kind of regular basis. In economy it is basically not possible for the person in front of me to recline. And boy do they try! Some especially inconsiderate ones even keep trying after they realize what they are doing. But I bring kneepads these days so it is not especially bothersome.
  - Simon_says 9y ago
    > I'm 6'10" Oh God. It's quite the understatement to say you're 99th percentile. According to [1], only 1 in 127,929 people are taller than you. [1] https://tall.life/height-percentile-calculator-age-country/ https://tall.life/height-percentile-calculator-age-country/
    - trapperkeeper74 9y ago
      I have a friend who's 7'4". Makes my measly 6'5" seem normal.
    - Freak_NL 9y ago
      Interesting tool. At 200cm I'm halfway up the 99th percentile for men in the Netherlands (1 in 171 is taller than me), but dial it down to 198cm (6'6") and you hit the 1% boundary. For the Dutch (and many other 'tall' countries this means flying economy is gruelling, bordering on impossible, on long-haul flights for 1 in 100 Dutch men. Naturally, I avoid flying as much as possible. Within Europe I'd rather spend hours trying to figure out the best dates and routes for cheap train tickets and utilize the few sleeper trains left — I really wish these didn't go out of style — rather than wait for hours at the airport and be physically tormented in flight.
  - mjevans 9y ago
    At what point should something like the ADA protect you from passenger spaces that are /literally/ too small to safely house you physically? I'd think the most effective solution would be just allowing you normal passenger rates but put you in the more expensive seat slots that actually fit.
- trapperkeeper74 9y ago
  I'm taller and the same width. I won't do aisle seats because jag-offs boarding and deplaning will rub my shoulder raw.
SmellTheGlove 9y ago
If you're wider than the seat, you should be looking for flights operated on Airbus equipment if you're stuck in coach. Their narrowbodies are a little wider than Boeing's, and you end up with about 1" more of width in a coach seat. You're best off looking at E70/75/90 regional jets (also ~18" wide seats, but 2+2 config) and A319/320/321 mainline. That's probably the biggest reason why JetBlue is an all around more comfortable experience. They fly exclusively A320/321 and E90 aircraft. Yeah they're configured with more legroom than the legacies, but every seat in the fleet is as wide as you'll find in a coach seat.
mcbain 9y ago
BA's long haul PE is called World Traveller Plus and it is only economy plus, not "Business Minus" like PE on CX, Qantas, JAL, etc. So it is better than coach, but only by a few inches. It is generally priced appropriately, though.
gommm 9y ago
British airways PE is actually not that bad. It's not as good as Cathay Pacific's but the hard product is quite good. Pitch is 38 inch (same as Cathay's) so it's good enough, it's not that wide at 18.5 inch (1 inch less than CX) but better than a coach seat.

by cletus 9y ago

ryanmarsh 9y ago

6'3" tall and 44" chest here. I fly almost every week. Anything less than Economy Plus/Premium is pure torture. Even in Economy Plus I still usually bump shoulders with the fellow next to me. If he's big like me we might as well be cuddling. I'm flying Seattle to Boston on Monday. I had to buy first class, there's no fucking way I'm doing that trip in anything less. Did I mention I have back problems (like many Americans). Thank God I have the means and airline status to travel better. It really is a bus in the sky. Might as well have standing room too.

cletus 9y ago
You mention a point worth highlighting: status. This is why I fly pretty much exclusively American. Not because American is the best airlines (it is not, but hey it's not United either). But because if I optimized solely for cost I wouldn't have any status on any airline. I'd be the first one bumped. I'd have worse seats and I'd be upgraded less. People like to bitch about how airlines treat them like crap but at the same time they often don't have any loyalty to any airline. What do you expect? Just this last flight from NYC to SFO I got upgraded to (lie-flat) business class for "free" (it cost I think 6 500-mile stickers but I have like 100 of those so who cares?). My AA status also multiplies all the miles I earn on AA and oneworld flights. That's worth something. I just wish AA had PE. Main Cabin "Plus" is not the same thing.
- eropple 9y ago
  People don't really have loyalty to airlines because the requirements for getting any benefits to that loyalty keep going up-up-up, though. If I fly anywhere, I'm paying for it, and the investment is huge before you even start seeing anything for it. And you couple that with the way airlines treat passengers in general, and the idea of loyalty to one is pretty much "...what?". My business partner, who's been at this longer than me, has JetBlue's Mosaic, but the perks for that are pretty lame given how much money we put through JetBlue.
  - saryant 9y ago
    There are status challenges available to address that issue.
    - eropple 9y ago
      So I fly at least one round-trip a month and I'd never even heard of this. That probably doesn't help with the notion of airline loyalty, yeah?
      - saryant 9y ago
        Most are advertised through large employers or direct marketing emails. So if you're sending everything from United to spam, you won't see it. Some airlines still just hand out free status based on your employer (I have Cathay Pacific status through that sort of program despite having never paid for a CX flight). American auto-enrolled me in one earlier this year. Gave me free platinum status for three months and 20 500-mile upgrade certs. The certs were mine and I had those three months to fly 5000 miles to extend status for a year.
        eropple 9y ago
        Now that I know about their existence, I'm totally seeing it. My point is more that this is a super-niche thing and so I'm not surprised that nobody has any loyalty to an airline (which rank down there with people who yell at kids on their lawn for customer satisfaction).
userbinator 9y ago
It really is a bus in the sky. I'd say it's worse. The buses I've been on have been far more comfortable than a plane, and I'm not even wide or tall.
- ryanmarsh 9y ago
  Fair point. I've been on many buses more comfortable than coach on a plane.
  - nojvek 9y ago
    Commute with bus everyday. Definitely more comfy.
    - seanp2k2 9y ago
      I'd much rather take a bus. More room and no fighting for overhead bins. You don't feel like cattle getting rustled into a aluminum cargo container with hundreds of pounds of junk inches above your head. There's also typically not the dreaded middle seat on a bus (2+2, but not like the awful regional jets where it's really a booster seat).
      - ascagnel_ 9y ago
        My local train service runs two types of trains: double-decker (with 2/2 seats) and single-decker (with 3/2 seats). The single-level trains cannot comfortably hold three average-size adults, so they effectively have half the capacity.
foobarian 9y ago
The sad truth is, airlines won't optimize for the 99th percentile. We tall people just have to grin and bear it. I'm 6'10" and I basically just take the viewpoint that I'm lucky that airplanes exist at all to make it possible to cross such great distances in such short times. But I fly seldom so I'm sure I'd sing a different tune if I had to fly on any kind of regular basis. In economy it is basically not possible for the person in front of me to recline. And boy do they try! Some especially inconsiderate ones even keep trying after they realize what they are doing. But I bring kneepads these days so it is not especially bothersome.
- Simon_says 9y ago
  > I'm 6'10" Oh God. It's quite the understatement to say you're 99th percentile. According to [1], only 1 in 127,929 people are taller than you. [1] https://tall.life/height-percentile-calculator-age-country/ https://tall.life/height-percentile-calculator-age-country/
  - trapperkeeper74 9y ago
    I have a friend who's 7'4". Makes my measly 6'5" seem normal.
  - Freak_NL 9y ago
    Interesting tool. At 200cm I'm halfway up the 99th percentile for men in the Netherlands (1 in 171 is taller than me), but dial it down to 198cm (6'6") and you hit the 1% boundary. For the Dutch (and many other 'tall' countries this means flying economy is gruelling, bordering on impossible, on long-haul flights for 1 in 100 Dutch men. Naturally, I avoid flying as much as possible. Within Europe I'd rather spend hours trying to figure out the best dates and routes for cheap train tickets and utilize the few sleeper trains left — I really wish these didn't go out of style — rather than wait for hours at the airport and be physically tormented in flight.
- mjevans 9y ago
  At what point should something like the ADA protect you from passenger spaces that are /literally/ too small to safely house you physically? I'd think the most effective solution would be just allowing you normal passenger rates but put you in the more expensive seat slots that actually fit.
trapperkeeper74 9y ago
I'm taller and the same width. I won't do aisle seats because jag-offs boarding and deplaning will rub my shoulder raw.

SmellTheGlove 9y ago

If you're wider than the seat, you should be looking for flights operated on Airbus equipment if you're stuck in coach. Their narrowbodies are a little wider than Boeing's, and you end up with about 1" more of width in a coach seat. You're best off looking at E70/75/90 regional jets (also ~18" wide seats, but 2+2 config) and A319/320/321 mainline. That's probably the biggest reason why JetBlue is an all around more comfortable experience. They fly exclusively A320/321 and E90 aircraft. Yeah they're configured with more legroom than the legacies, but every seat in the fleet is as wide as you'll find in a coach seat.

mcbain 9y ago

BA's long haul PE is called World Traveller Plus and it is only economy plus, not "Business Minus" like PE on CX, Qantas, JAL, etc. So it is better than coach, but only by a few inches. It is generally priced appropriately, though.

gommm 9y ago

British airways PE is actually not that bad. It's not as good as Cathay Pacific's but the hard product is quite good. Pitch is 38 inch (same as Cathay's) so it's good enough, it's not that wide at 18.5 inch (1 inch less than CX) but better than a coach seat.