4 ms·

Being stupid about compensation was a pattern when I was managing. Want people to be happy? Give them no benefits, no health care, no 401K, no bonuses, and pl

Being stupid about compensation was a pattern when I was managing. Want people to be happy? Give them no benefits, no health care, no 401K, no bonuses, and plow all of that into salary. People would rather have bragging rights about how much they make. Doesn't matter if you point out that they get a bigger package when the employer pays the health care (if the employee pays then they pay with after tax money). It is mind blowing to realize that people that are way smarter than me are stupid about money. But I've definitely seen that pattern. I ignored what they wanted and gave them good health care, did 2:1 match into their 401K, and did bonuses so we didn't get double taxed (corporate and personal).

doug1001 9y ago
In a decade or so, when they are scanning their investment portfolio and see their fat 401(k) or they are expecting their second child, they'll (quite justifiably) thank you, ex post, but at the moment, they probably just think you're a cheap bastard and/or that you're trying to screw them over somehow. no good deed goes unpunished--sigh
- tunetine 9y ago
  This might speak to the cost of education. When you're so far in debt, you don't think twice about not putting money into a 401k, health care you don't need, etc because of crippling student loans.
faet 9y ago
I have a friend who took a 1099 job over a W2 job because "they offered more money". I tried to explain that because he is now paying a higher payroll tax he's earning less per hour than the other job. He doesn't get it though. "The other company was offering X. This one is offering 5% more." He also doesn't have PTO, 401k, or medical insurance.
- luckydude 9y ago
  Yeah, this is exactly the sort of thing I was talking about. How can you be a brilliant engineer and make this sort of mistake? I was trying to hire a very senior guy from Sun and we didn't get him because our salary offer was lower than Sun's but the package was better than Sun's. This guy was a distinguished engineer (equal to a director in the management track). We wanted him for VP of engineering, he was smart, good people person, got stuff done. But couldn't add up all the things in a package. Just weird.
  - Jugurtha 9y ago
    This is interesting. Can this be thought of as the flip side of matt_s' second point[0]: >Thinking that pure technical merit of an idea will magically sell it to me (manager) and above. This, being the flip side, can be formulated as: "Thinking that pure managerial merit of an idea will magically sell it to me (managéè)[1] and below/lateral". I'm at my first job. Every time I'm asked to make a presentation I invariably ask: "Who's the audience?". I'm an Electronics Engineer by training, so my eliciting question came because I think of "impedance matching", an expression that's often used but seldom appreciated for what it really is. The first sentence of the Wikipedia entry is clear and concise: > In electronics, impedance matching is the practice of designing the input impedance of an electrical load or the output impedance of its corresponding signal source to maximize the power transfer or minimize signal reflection from the load. Controlling the input impedance of the load (my interlocutor) is out of my control as far as I know. Controlling the output impedance of the source (me) is within my control, so this is where I start. It's also wonderful that doing this effort reveals gaping holes in my implementation sometimes. What's your opinion on that? (that's it the flip side of the same problem of an Engineer who complains management doesn't "get it", as someone who's been in both roles) [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15047382 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15047382 [1]: Not an actual word but I just love how content written in English uses French words with accents in all the wrong places. In case you're wondering about the order, I didn't use èé because it looks like an angry frowning dude and I aimed for dumbfounded, which is exactly what éè looks like.
    - luckydude 9y ago

doug1001 9y ago

In a decade or so, when they are scanning their investment portfolio and see their fat 401(k) or they are expecting their second child, they'll (quite justifiably) thank you, ex post, but at the moment, they probably just think you're a cheap bastard and/or that you're trying to screw them over somehow. no good deed goes unpunished--sigh

tunetine 9y ago
This might speak to the cost of education. When you're so far in debt, you don't think twice about not putting money into a 401k, health care you don't need, etc because of crippling student loans.

faet 9y ago

I have a friend who took a 1099 job over a W2 job because "they offered more money". I tried to explain that because he is now paying a higher payroll tax he's earning less per hour than the other job. He doesn't get it though. "The other company was offering X. This one is offering 5% more." He also doesn't have PTO, 401k, or medical insurance.

luckydude 9y ago
Yeah, this is exactly the sort of thing I was talking about. How can you be a brilliant engineer and make this sort of mistake? I was trying to hire a very senior guy from Sun and we didn't get him because our salary offer was lower than Sun's but the package was better than Sun's. This guy was a distinguished engineer (equal to a director in the management track). We wanted him for VP of engineering, he was smart, good people person, got stuff done. But couldn't add up all the things in a package. Just weird.
- Jugurtha 9y ago
  This is interesting. Can this be thought of as the flip side of matt_s' second point[0]: >Thinking that pure technical merit of an idea will magically sell it to me (manager) and above. This, being the flip side, can be formulated as: "Thinking that pure managerial merit of an idea will magically sell it to me (managéè)[1] and below/lateral". I'm at my first job. Every time I'm asked to make a presentation I invariably ask: "Who's the audience?". I'm an Electronics Engineer by training, so my eliciting question came because I think of "impedance matching", an expression that's often used but seldom appreciated for what it really is. The first sentence of the Wikipedia entry is clear and concise: > In electronics, impedance matching is the practice of designing the input impedance of an electrical load or the output impedance of its corresponding signal source to maximize the power transfer or minimize signal reflection from the load. Controlling the input impedance of the load (my interlocutor) is out of my control as far as I know. Controlling the output impedance of the source (me) is within my control, so this is where I start. It's also wonderful that doing this effort reveals gaping holes in my implementation sometimes. What's your opinion on that? (that's it the flip side of the same problem of an Engineer who complains management doesn't "get it", as someone who's been in both roles) [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15047382 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15047382 [1]: Not an actual word but I just love how content written in English uses French words with accents in all the wrong places. In case you're wondering about the order, I didn't use èé because it looks like an angry frowning dude and I aimed for dumbfounded, which is exactly what éè looks like.
  - luckydude 9y ago