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It's basically impossible to get a job in Zurich though. In San Fransisco, a coding bootcamp grad can get 140K out the door. This is how capitalism works. We ta

It's basically impossible to get a job in Zurich though. In San Fransisco, a coding bootcamp grad can get 140K out the door. This is how capitalism works. We take the bad with the good. Politics reflect the will of the people and the people in San Fransisco on both sides of the aisle want to make as much money as they can, any way they can.

hooph00p 9y ago
These are some broad generalizations.
JohnDotAwesome 9y ago
> In San Fransisco, a coding bootcamp grad can get 140K out the door I really hope that's not true
- jmckib 9y ago
  It is, though I'd say the average is closer to 100-120k. Not sure why that's a bad thing though.
  - cabaalis 9y ago
    Not really a bad thing, just maybe disappointing. I've been a professional coder for 10 years, and now am at an "executive"-level at a small startup, and I make the high end of that. In my area, that is a very strong upper-middle-class salary, though 180 would be better. It's sad at first to see that someone who is simply in a different area geographically is afforded so much for so little effort. However when you factor in the cost of living there, it feels (slightly) better. I say slightly, because every time I've visited SF the actual costs of things has not been significantly different. I haven't had to pay rent or mortgage there, though. Edit: And I don't live somewhere off in the woods, either. The county I live in is in the top 10 wealthiest counties in the country. There is something wrong in SF that is not just cost of living.
    - wbl 9y ago
      What's wrong with high pay?
      - cabaalis 9y ago
        Sorry? I re-read my comment and I didn't say anything about high pay.
    - sulam 9y ago
      Your small startup is probably why you're making that. Startups don't actually pay well, and it's not a small difference. Regarding cost of living here, I just did some basic research using Portland as an example and it looks like I could reduce my mortgage by anywhere from 25-50% pretty easily without giving up anything in terms of bedrooms, square footage, location, etc. In terms of rentals, it looks comparable. Of course I probably couldn't get a job earning what I do in SF either. I haven't looked at relocating because (surprise!) we actually like it here and with kids you get pinned down unless things are pretty bad. It's worth noting that I live in Alameda, the island/town the woman in the article was living in when she got evicted. We are literally having riots (two now) at city hall when tenant-friendly changes to local law have been discussed. They keep passing the ballot, though! Alameda passed an anti-density measure in the early 70's in response to developers demolishing old Victorians in order to build crappy apartment buildings. That measure has in turn kept high density development from being done _anywhere_ on the island, including the old naval base where there is nothing historic to be preserved (except the ships floating on the water). Current anti-density arguments primarily come from people who don't want additional commute-hours congestion and landlords who are perfectly happy to rent a 2-bedroom apartment for $2200/mo. (Cheap compared to SF!)
- icantdrive55 9y ago
  It probally is. I don't get those who don't see the bubble. On the bright side, when Icantcompetewithamonoploy.com dies--the price of housing will drop, especially in the less desirable areas. My fear is not housing, it's what us the SFBA going to do with the huge amount of homeless that will just appear. (Anyone in this industry should be very concerned about homelessness. No real barrier to entry. No real skills, or skills that can be lost in a couple of years. And an industry that kicks people out after a certain age.)
_delirium 9y ago
Huh? Zurich has lots of jobs, and they pay very well.
Thaxll 9y ago
You don't get 140k out of the door.
d--b 9y ago
Zurich is a city whose main industry is banking. There are a lot of _very_ well paid jobs in Zurich.
- ucaetano 9y ago
  Not really. For the Canton of Zurich (can't find city-specific info), financial services accounts for 21% of GVA, telecommunications accounts for 27%, industry and mining for 14%, entertainment for another 14%. Zurich is a major tech and manufacturing hub.

hooph00p 9y ago

These are some broad generalizations.

JohnDotAwesome 9y ago

> In San Fransisco, a coding bootcamp grad can get 140K out the door I really hope that's not true

jmckib 9y ago
It is, though I'd say the average is closer to 100-120k. Not sure why that's a bad thing though.
- cabaalis 9y ago
  Not really a bad thing, just maybe disappointing. I've been a professional coder for 10 years, and now am at an "executive"-level at a small startup, and I make the high end of that. In my area, that is a very strong upper-middle-class salary, though 180 would be better. It's sad at first to see that someone who is simply in a different area geographically is afforded so much for so little effort. However when you factor in the cost of living there, it feels (slightly) better. I say slightly, because every time I've visited SF the actual costs of things has not been significantly different. I haven't had to pay rent or mortgage there, though. Edit: And I don't live somewhere off in the woods, either. The county I live in is in the top 10 wealthiest counties in the country. There is something wrong in SF that is not just cost of living.
  - wbl 9y ago
    What's wrong with high pay?
    - cabaalis 9y ago
      Sorry? I re-read my comment and I didn't say anything about high pay.
  - sulam 9y ago
    Your small startup is probably why you're making that. Startups don't actually pay well, and it's not a small difference. Regarding cost of living here, I just did some basic research using Portland as an example and it looks like I could reduce my mortgage by anywhere from 25-50% pretty easily without giving up anything in terms of bedrooms, square footage, location, etc. In terms of rentals, it looks comparable. Of course I probably couldn't get a job earning what I do in SF either. I haven't looked at relocating because (surprise!) we actually like it here and with kids you get pinned down unless things are pretty bad. It's worth noting that I live in Alameda, the island/town the woman in the article was living in when she got evicted. We are literally having riots (two now) at city hall when tenant-friendly changes to local law have been discussed. They keep passing the ballot, though! Alameda passed an anti-density measure in the early 70's in response to developers demolishing old Victorians in order to build crappy apartment buildings. That measure has in turn kept high density development from being done _anywhere_ on the island, including the old naval base where there is nothing historic to be preserved (except the ships floating on the water). Current anti-density arguments primarily come from people who don't want additional commute-hours congestion and landlords who are perfectly happy to rent a 2-bedroom apartment for $2200/mo. (Cheap compared to SF!)
icantdrive55 9y ago
It probally is. I don't get those who don't see the bubble. On the bright side, when Icantcompetewithamonoploy.com dies--the price of housing will drop, especially in the less desirable areas. My fear is not housing, it's what us the SFBA going to do with the huge amount of homeless that will just appear. (Anyone in this industry should be very concerned about homelessness. No real barrier to entry. No real skills, or skills that can be lost in a couple of years. And an industry that kicks people out after a certain age.)

_delirium 9y ago

Huh? Zurich has lots of jobs, and they pay very well.

Thaxll 9y ago

You don't get 140k out of the door.

d--b 9y ago

Zurich is a city whose main industry is banking. There are a lot of _very_ well paid jobs in Zurich.

ucaetano 9y ago
Not really. For the Canton of Zurich (can't find city-specific info), financial services accounts for 21% of GVA, telecommunications accounts for 27%, industry and mining for 14%, entertainment for another 14%. Zurich is a major tech and manufacturing hub.