3 ms·

It's disappointing they did not reference the seminal work by the father of the Periodic Table on ethanol/water solutions [1]. This work is often cited as justi

It's disappointing they did not reference the seminal work by the father of the Periodic Table on ethanol/water solutions [1]. This work is often cited as justification for why Russian vodkas are 80 proof. 1. Mendeleev, D.I., O soedinenii spirta s vodoi, sochineniya (Total Collection of Transactions: On the Combinations of Alcohol with Water), Leningrad: ONTI-Khimteoret, 1937, vol. 4. UPDATE on Mendeleev's work with alcohols: https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/pressroom/newsreleases/2010/june/brand-preference-may-be-in-the-drink-not-in-the-head.html https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/pressroom/newsreleases/20... Dale Schaefer and colleagues, who conducted the study, note that vodka has a long-standing reputation as a colorless, tasteless solution of 40 percent pure ethyl alcohol, or ethanol, and 60 percent pure water. All such beverages should have the same faint or undetectable taste. But sales of premium vodka brands have surged in recent years. Schaefer’s group at the University of Cincinnati worked with colleagues from Moscow State University in Russia to find an answer. They knew that famed Russian chemist Dmitri Mendeleev, noted for work on the Periodic Table of the Elements, made a key observation on alcohol solutions in his 1865 doctoral dissertation. Mendeleev believed that a solution of 40 percent ethanol and 60 percent water would develop peculiar clusters of molecules, called hydrates. That solution became the global standard for vodka, which usually is sold as an 80-proof, or 40 percent alcohol, beverage.

timcederman 9y ago
Can you give a brief explanation of the justification? I googled for the paper, and had difficulty finding the original or citations.
- jartelt 9y ago
  Not sure who is right, but there is this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmitri_Mendeleev#Vodka_myth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmitri_Mendeleev#Vodka_myth
  - georgecmu 9y ago
    From the wikipedia page you're citing: However, Mendeleev's dissertation was about alcohol concentrations over 70% and he never wrote anything about vodka. This is clearly not true. Page 81 (Chapter 4) of Mendeleev's dissertation [1] starts as follows: На основаніи этого, желая съ возможною точностію опредѣлить составъ той смѣси спирта и воды, которой при разныхъ температурахъ соотвѣтствуетъ наибольшее сжатіе, я изслѣдовалъ смѣси, содержащія отъ 40 до 50 процентовъ безводнаго спирта. Это изслѣдованіе состоитъ изъ двухъ главныхъ частей: приготовленія смѣсей и опредѣленія ихъ удѣльнаго вѣса. Опишу первое, второе изложено во второй главѣ. [1] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/%D0%9C%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%B5%D0%B2_%D0%94.%D0%98._%D0%A0%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%81%D1%83%D0%B6%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5_%D0%BE_%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B8_%D1%81%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%80%D1%82%D0%B0_%D1%81_%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%B9._%281865%29.pdf https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/%D0%9C%D...
    - appleflaxen 9y ago
      where does that say whiskey? google translate provides: On the basis of this, wishing, with the utmost precision, to determine the composition of the mixture of alcohol and water, which corresponds to the greatest compression at different temperatures, I used a mixture containing from 40 to 50 percent of anhydrous alcohol. This study consists of two main parts: the preparation of the sms and the definition of their extra vias. I'll describe the first, the second is set out in the second chapter.
- georgecmu 9y ago
  Here's the original: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/%D0%9C%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%B5%D0%B2_%D0%94.%D0%98._%D0%A0%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%81%D1%83%D0%B6%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5_%D0%BE_%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B8_%D1%81%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%80%D1%82%D0%B0_%D1%81_%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%B9._%281865%29.pdf https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/%D0%9C%D... He actually determined that the highest compression of the mixture takes place at roughly 46% alcohol. (p. 93).
plaguuuuuu 9y ago
>All such beverages should have the same faint or undetectable taste. But sales of premium vodka brands have surged in recent years. Not sure what the threshold is for "premium" vodka, but anything not relatively high in price very objectively tastes like Satan's armpit

timcederman 9y ago

Can you give a brief explanation of the justification? I googled for the paper, and had difficulty finding the original or citations.

jartelt 9y ago
Not sure who is right, but there is this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmitri_Mendeleev#Vodka_myth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmitri_Mendeleev#Vodka_myth
- georgecmu 9y ago
  From the wikipedia page you're citing: However, Mendeleev's dissertation was about alcohol concentrations over 70% and he never wrote anything about vodka. This is clearly not true. Page 81 (Chapter 4) of Mendeleev's dissertation [1] starts as follows: На основаніи этого, желая съ возможною точностію опредѣлить составъ той смѣси спирта и воды, которой при разныхъ температурахъ соотвѣтствуетъ наибольшее сжатіе, я изслѣдовалъ смѣси, содержащія отъ 40 до 50 процентовъ безводнаго спирта. Это изслѣдованіе состоитъ изъ двухъ главныхъ частей: приготовленія смѣсей и опредѣленія ихъ удѣльнаго вѣса. Опишу первое, второе изложено во второй главѣ. [1] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/%D0%9C%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%B5%D0%B2_%D0%94.%D0%98._%D0%A0%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%81%D1%83%D0%B6%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5_%D0%BE_%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B8_%D1%81%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%80%D1%82%D0%B0_%D1%81_%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%B9._%281865%29.pdf https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/%D0%9C%D...
  - appleflaxen 9y ago
    where does that say whiskey? google translate provides: On the basis of this, wishing, with the utmost precision, to determine the composition of the mixture of alcohol and water, which corresponds to the greatest compression at different temperatures, I used a mixture containing from 40 to 50 percent of anhydrous alcohol. This study consists of two main parts: the preparation of the sms and the definition of their extra vias. I'll describe the first, the second is set out in the second chapter.
georgecmu 9y ago
Here's the original: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/%D0%9C%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%B5%D0%B2_%D0%94.%D0%98._%D0%A0%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%81%D1%83%D0%B6%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5_%D0%BE_%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B8_%D1%81%D0%BF%D0%B8%D1%80%D1%82%D0%B0_%D1%81_%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%B9._%281865%29.pdf https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/%D0%9C%D... He actually determined that the highest compression of the mixture takes place at roughly 46% alcohol. (p. 93).

plaguuuuuu 9y ago

>All such beverages should have the same faint or undetectable taste. But sales of premium vodka brands have surged in recent years. Not sure what the threshold is for "premium" vodka, but anything not relatively high in price very objectively tastes like Satan's armpit