4 ms·

You think a toaster is simple? Try building one from scratch! This guy did: http://www.thetoasterproject.org http://www.thetoasterproject.org and it was HARD!

titzer 9y ago
Well, smelting your own iron and making plastic are the hard part. There is nothing particularly challenging if you have a few pieces of metal laying around.
- alexlarsson 9y ago
  Sure, it all depends on how you define a "blank slate". The whole world of engineering is a huge stack, and near the bottom are things like smelting iron and making plastic, up a few layers you have things like standardized screws, near the top you have things like kernels, databases, etc. If all these things can be taken as a given, why would you not want to use them? I mean, yes, you can avoid some complexity by making a simple toaster, but the second the consumer wants things like "never burn my toast" or "personalized toast levels" you need to go up the stack. That said, some IOT things are clearly lame ideas that should never have been made in the first place, but that doesn't mean you should avoid using existing technology.
  - titzer 9y ago
    > If all these things can be taken as a given, why would you not want to use them? When the device breaks, what do we do with it? If it is mostly software, it is not user serviceable, whereas something with a spring and clips and wires is something that a curious person armed with a screwdriver could disassemble and fix. I fear that software is ushering in an age where users are absolutely helpless when something breaks. Then we get big stupid bricks with chips in them.
    - maxerickson 9y ago
      The complexity can be worth it. Take electronic fuel injection. Uses less fuel, has a better power band, has a wider range of self correction.
      - alexlarsson 9y ago
        Cars are actually a great example of where things have become highly complex, which means that they are now essentially impossible to fix yourself. On the other hand, for regular day-to-day use they are a lot better.
cbcoutinho 9y ago
What an interesting guy... Right now he's investigating what it is like to be a goat: http://www.thomasthwaites.com/a-holiday-from-being-human-goatman/ http://www.thomasthwaites.com/a-holiday-from-being-human-goa... Don't knock it until you try it I guess?

titzer 9y ago

Well, smelting your own iron and making plastic are the hard part. There is nothing particularly challenging if you have a few pieces of metal laying around.

alexlarsson 9y ago
Sure, it all depends on how you define a "blank slate". The whole world of engineering is a huge stack, and near the bottom are things like smelting iron and making plastic, up a few layers you have things like standardized screws, near the top you have things like kernels, databases, etc. If all these things can be taken as a given, why would you not want to use them? I mean, yes, you can avoid some complexity by making a simple toaster, but the second the consumer wants things like "never burn my toast" or "personalized toast levels" you need to go up the stack. That said, some IOT things are clearly lame ideas that should never have been made in the first place, but that doesn't mean you should avoid using existing technology.
- titzer 9y ago
  > If all these things can be taken as a given, why would you not want to use them? When the device breaks, what do we do with it? If it is mostly software, it is not user serviceable, whereas something with a spring and clips and wires is something that a curious person armed with a screwdriver could disassemble and fix. I fear that software is ushering in an age where users are absolutely helpless when something breaks. Then we get big stupid bricks with chips in them.
  - maxerickson 9y ago
    The complexity can be worth it. Take electronic fuel injection. Uses less fuel, has a better power band, has a wider range of self correction.
    - alexlarsson 9y ago
      Cars are actually a great example of where things have become highly complex, which means that they are now essentially impossible to fix yourself. On the other hand, for regular day-to-day use they are a lot better.

cbcoutinho 9y ago

What an interesting guy... Right now he's investigating what it is like to be a goat: http://www.thomasthwaites.com/a-holiday-from-being-human-goatman/ http://www.thomasthwaites.com/a-holiday-from-being-human-goa... Don't knock it until you try it I guess?