13 ms·

Can we derive that Lactobacillus rhamnosus could reduce all kinds of allergies when taken, even without adding proteins that you are allergic to?

by manmal 9y ago

ljf 9y ago
We really don't know - but I really think there is a link between gut bacteria and allergies, based on some of the reading I've done, though it's all very early days for research in this area. Our boy has allergies and we've been giving him Water Kefir daily for the last year (we would give Milk Kefir, but he's currently allergic to dairy too :( His allergies developed after a dose of antibiotics - which likely would have wiped his gut bacteria out, so anything which can help him there is worth trying. The amount he's had now though, it's be shocked if he wasn't better than average in that metric I personally think that we will look back at the symbiotic relationships that bacteria provide, and be amazed by the way we currently live - with hand sanitisers, and even antibiotic dish soap - plus antibiotics in our meat and water... Sure we will look back on this time in the same way we look at Romans and lead water pipes.
- 6d6b73 9y ago
  Suggestion based on my N=1. If your son has any seasonal allergies, try giving him tiny amounts (1/4 of a teaspoon) of raw local honey every single day.
  - ljf 9y ago
    Cheers for that - need to track some local honey down now ;)
Icedcool 9y ago
What I understand is that no, because the probiotic is just a digestive support and used in the study as being a 'supportive' agent. The real actionable item is adding the allergen intentionally and increasing the dose over time.
- gehwartzen 9y ago
  That's not entirely true. The study itself lists several previous works that only introduced the peanut allergen in varying amount over time. The results of those studies show that yes the body increasingly builds antibodies while the allergen is introduced but those effects diminish rapidly after the treatment is stopped. The importance of this work is that with the simultaneous introduction of this bacteria the effect is maintained for years. The bacteria plays a important role in allowing the body to retain the immunity. "Moreover, because there was no convincing evidence that allergen OITalone was effective in promoting sustained unresponsiveness at the time our randomized controlled trial (RCT) was designed and initiated, we elected to undertake a clinical trial evaluating whether coadministration of Lactobacillus rhamnosus CGMCC 1.3724 (NCC4007) and peanut OIT can induce sustained unresponsiveness to peanut among children with peanut allergy (Australian New Zealand Clinical Trials Registry ACTRN 12608000594325, 25/11/2008). This probiotic was selected based on its demonstrated tolerance-promoting effects, including induction of regulatory T and TH1 cytokine responses."
  - gojomo 9y ago
    It still would have been nice if they'd done a control group, an allergen-only group, and an allergen-and-probiotic group – all from the exact same initial randomization and using the exact same administration/follow-through practices. That would have best quantified what, if any, added benefit the probiotic creates.
    - gehwartzen 9y ago
      True. Additionally it would be good to have a baseline measurement of the probiotic population in each subject prior to starting.
gehwartzen 9y ago
Hmm one interesting thing I found is that Lactobacillus rhamnosus is "The Lactobacillus rhamnosus and L. reuteri species are most commonly found in the healthy female genito-urinary tract" [1] I would think that it is transferred to the child at birth. Some factors that could lead to a higher incident of peanut allergies if this bacteria is vital to preventing it: - Child was delivered via cesarean w/o a vaginal swab transfer. The rate of c-sectons has certainly increased quite a bit in the last few decades. - The Mother did not have a health population to begin with. - The use of antibiotics that could wipe these strains out. Either in the mother prior to delivery or in the child after being born. - lack of introduction through other sources (some yoghurts and cheeses) [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactobacillus_rhamnosus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactobacillus_rhamnosus

Can we derive that Lactobacillus rhamnosus could reduce all kinds of allergies when taken, even without adding proteins that you are allergic to?

by manmal 9y ago

Can we derive that Lactobacillus rhamnosus could reduce all kinds of allergies when taken, even without adding proteins that you are allergic to?

ljf 9y ago

We really don't know - but I really think there is a link between gut bacteria and allergies, based on some of the reading I've done, though it's all very early days for research in this area. Our boy has allergies and we've been giving him Water Kefir daily for the last year (we would give Milk Kefir, but he's currently allergic to dairy too :( His allergies developed after a dose of antibiotics - which likely would have wiped his gut bacteria out, so anything which can help him there is worth trying. The amount he's had now though, it's be shocked if he wasn't better than average in that metric I personally think that we will look back at the symbiotic relationships that bacteria provide, and be amazed by the way we currently live - with hand sanitisers, and even antibiotic dish soap - plus antibiotics in our meat and water... Sure we will look back on this time in the same way we look at Romans and lead water pipes.

6d6b73 9y ago
Suggestion based on my N=1. If your son has any seasonal allergies, try giving him tiny amounts (1/4 of a teaspoon) of raw local honey every single day.
- ljf 9y ago
  Cheers for that - need to track some local honey down now ;)

Icedcool 9y ago

What I understand is that no, because the probiotic is just a digestive support and used in the study as being a 'supportive' agent. The real actionable item is adding the allergen intentionally and increasing the dose over time.

gehwartzen 9y ago
That's not entirely true. The study itself lists several previous works that only introduced the peanut allergen in varying amount over time. The results of those studies show that yes the body increasingly builds antibodies while the allergen is introduced but those effects diminish rapidly after the treatment is stopped. The importance of this work is that with the simultaneous introduction of this bacteria the effect is maintained for years. The bacteria plays a important role in allowing the body to retain the immunity. "Moreover, because there was no convincing evidence that allergen OITalone was effective in promoting sustained unresponsiveness at the time our randomized controlled trial (RCT) was designed and initiated, we elected to undertake a clinical trial evaluating whether coadministration of Lactobacillus rhamnosus CGMCC 1.3724 (NCC4007) and peanut OIT can induce sustained unresponsiveness to peanut among children with peanut allergy (Australian New Zealand Clinical Trials Registry ACTRN 12608000594325, 25/11/2008). This probiotic was selected based on its demonstrated tolerance-promoting effects, including induction of regulatory T and TH1 cytokine responses."
- gojomo 9y ago
  It still would have been nice if they'd done a control group, an allergen-only group, and an allergen-and-probiotic group – all from the exact same initial randomization and using the exact same administration/follow-through practices. That would have best quantified what, if any, added benefit the probiotic creates.
  - gehwartzen 9y ago
    True. Additionally it would be good to have a baseline measurement of the probiotic population in each subject prior to starting.

gehwartzen 9y ago

Hmm one interesting thing I found is that Lactobacillus rhamnosus is "The Lactobacillus rhamnosus and L. reuteri species are most commonly found in the healthy female genito-urinary tract" [1] I would think that it is transferred to the child at birth. Some factors that could lead to a higher incident of peanut allergies if this bacteria is vital to preventing it: - Child was delivered via cesarean w/o a vaginal swab transfer. The rate of c-sectons has certainly increased quite a bit in the last few decades. - The Mother did not have a health population to begin with. - The use of antibiotics that could wipe these strains out. Either in the mother prior to delivery or in the child after being born. - lack of introduction through other sources (some yoghurts and cheeses) [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactobacillus_rhamnosus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactobacillus_rhamnosus