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> Importing tech talent, rather than promoting. is often at odds with both the point above and below it. When a company is in rapid growth, there may be a poin

> Importing tech talent, rather than promoting. is often at odds with both the point above and below it. When a company is in rapid growth, there may be a point where the talent they relied on is not quite ready for the promotion they are hiring in for. Without expanding that search outside, you may become stale in the organization, and not provide the right mentorship to ensure that those interested in getting promoted will be able to do their job properly once there. I think the point should be, that you would want to ensure that those you import will be able to help promote from within as things progress.

mianos 9y ago
Except that the usual thing is to pay the new guy more and believe his story that the tech he used at the last gig, that he is now an expert in, is better than how you did it. Now management makes the new expert the boss. Next thing the old guy discovers the new guy was just in the right place at the right time in the last place and is useless, but, because he is the new boss you have to do everything again.
- elliottcarlson 9y ago
  Fair point. That would definitely be a bad scenario as well, but would imho be a different issue from hiring someone from outside all together. A bad hire is a bad hire, and someone who comes in wanting to change everything to fit their way (especially if their way is wrong) is not a good thing. I still don't know if the original point is accurate as a common mistake, and perhaps the bigger issue would be that non-technical people make bad choices when trying to find technical leadership that are the wrong fit?
  - mianos 9y ago
    I agree, both reasons. The funny thing about this, in a dark funny way, is, management often offers a veto right to the team. They say "if you don't rate the new manager you can deny". Then, they hire anyway, in my experience, more often than not if they like the guy. I think the excuse is "You people doing the work (often with 'in the trenches') don't understand the big picture, this new guy does, so your veto is annulled".
Boothroid 9y ago
Here's another one - promoting without advertising the role first. Come annual review time: 'I am pleased to announce that x, y and z are now Senior Consultants and will be managing a, b, c, d, e and f' (who were never given any chance to apply for the role).
- random_rr 9y ago
  Roles are always open - you should be seeking them out :)
- drpentode 9y ago
  At review time, when you're asked what your goals are, mention the promotion. Ask what you need to do to get there. 90% of the time, the manager is more than happy to help you.
groby_b 9y ago
It's not just a rapid growth thing. It's pretty well known that if you want your career to progress at a non-glacial pace, you'll need to hop jobs. Pretty much all companies are more willing to take a risk on new hires than on their own people.
muzani 9y ago
More into details... I've actually been approached by recruiters in a few companies who want me to come in and "upgrade" the whole tech stack. I ask them what's wrong with it? It turns out management was not happy with it being built in a homegrown framework by a junior, even though it was functioning fine. Situation for the last point: I was asked to come in for a years old team. The team didn't know source control or agile. But because a large number of them were used to operating without these tools, it was extremely difficult to get them to adopt proper techniques, and we only got the juniors and testers to use Git.

mianos 9y ago

Except that the usual thing is to pay the new guy more and believe his story that the tech he used at the last gig, that he is now an expert in, is better than how you did it. Now management makes the new expert the boss. Next thing the old guy discovers the new guy was just in the right place at the right time in the last place and is useless, but, because he is the new boss you have to do everything again.

elliottcarlson 9y ago
Fair point. That would definitely be a bad scenario as well, but would imho be a different issue from hiring someone from outside all together. A bad hire is a bad hire, and someone who comes in wanting to change everything to fit their way (especially if their way is wrong) is not a good thing. I still don't know if the original point is accurate as a common mistake, and perhaps the bigger issue would be that non-technical people make bad choices when trying to find technical leadership that are the wrong fit?
- mianos 9y ago
  I agree, both reasons. The funny thing about this, in a dark funny way, is, management often offers a veto right to the team. They say "if you don't rate the new manager you can deny". Then, they hire anyway, in my experience, more often than not if they like the guy. I think the excuse is "You people doing the work (often with 'in the trenches') don't understand the big picture, this new guy does, so your veto is annulled".

Boothroid 9y ago

Here's another one - promoting without advertising the role first. Come annual review time: 'I am pleased to announce that x, y and z are now Senior Consultants and will be managing a, b, c, d, e and f' (who were never given any chance to apply for the role).

random_rr 9y ago
Roles are always open - you should be seeking them out :)
drpentode 9y ago
At review time, when you're asked what your goals are, mention the promotion. Ask what you need to do to get there. 90% of the time, the manager is more than happy to help you.

groby_b 9y ago

It's not just a rapid growth thing. It's pretty well known that if you want your career to progress at a non-glacial pace, you'll need to hop jobs. Pretty much all companies are more willing to take a risk on new hires than on their own people.

muzani 9y ago

More into details... I've actually been approached by recruiters in a few companies who want me to come in and "upgrade" the whole tech stack. I ask them what's wrong with it? It turns out management was not happy with it being built in a homegrown framework by a junior, even though it was functioning fine. Situation for the last point: I was asked to come in for a years old team. The team didn't know source control or agile. But because a large number of them were used to operating without these tools, it was extremely difficult to get them to adopt proper techniques, and we only got the juniors and testers to use Git.