4 ms·

> It seems to me that such a business owner would seem in hindsight to have been acting virtuously, No it wouldn't - There is a large percentage of population

by meric 9y ago

> It seems to me that such a business owner would seem in hindsight to have been acting virtuously, No it wouldn't - There is a large percentage of population joining Nazi parties for convenience, for their career or even out of fear. Are you going to deny them the food you sell from your shop? If they are Nazi's, are they still not human beings deserving to access food in the market? Does someone being a member of the Nazi party mean we can let them starve to death? Shoot them and push them into a trench even? The moment you dehumanise vast swathes of the population, you've already lost and dropped to the level of "Nazi's". It's not wise to let your enemies turn you into them.

mbrock 9y ago
Well, I might ask whether you think there is a difference between selling food to an individual who happens to be a member of the Nazi party, and catering for a Nazi party event?
- meric 9y ago
  The bottom line is: Am I going to let a man starve himself to death while I have a shop full of food? No.
  - mbrock 9y ago
    What if that man is, for example, threatening your family or friends?
    - meric 9y ago
      In 2017 we have prisons and we don't starve anyone in there.
      - selllikesybok 9y ago
        Well, actually... https://www.google.com/amp/s/spoonuniversity.com/news/the-disgusting-truth-behind-prison-food-in-america/amp https://www.google.com/amp/s/spoonuniversity.com/news/the-di...
  - zer0tonin 9y ago
    If letting this man starve himself to death could save hundred of others I wouldn't hesitate.
croon 9y ago
> If they are Nazi's, are they still not human beings deserving to access food in the market? No, they can stop being nazi's at any point. Literally in less than a second. Blacks, jews, gays, disabled people can't. Stop trying to equate the two. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
- rayiner 9y ago
  People can abandon their religion at any time, but we still protect peoples' religious rights, no matter how odious their beliefs.
  - croon 9y ago
    No we don't, not when the religion (badly interpreted) promotes murder, ie radical islam. Are you pretending that nazism can be interpreted charitably? I can kill someone and claim it's for buddhism or my local sports team, but there is no basis for either of those promoting murder. Nazism not so.
    - rayiner 9y ago
      The penalty for leaving Islam (apostasy) is death. Many muslims believe it (like, the majority of the populations of places like Pakistan and Egypt). I guarantee you that you could not, consistent with the Civil Rights Act of 1964, deny service to Muslims merely for expressing the belief that apostates should be put to death.
      - croon 9y ago
        I actually agree with you, and Christianity has the same problem in writing. But the difference (or similarity?) is that only a diminishingly tiny fraction of practitioners for either religion believes in stoning. If I asked you to give me a few key points of the tenets of Islam and Christianity, would any be about killing, eradicating, or persecution of people? If I asked you to do the same for Nazism? Are you going to pretend it's comparable?
coldtea 9y ago
>Does someone being a member of the Nazi party mean we can let them starve to death? Shoot them and push them into a trench even? Historically, yes.
norea-armozel 9y ago
Let me ask you this then. If a homeless Nazi begged me for a dollar to get a McMuffin (not sure if those are on the dollar menu but take it as part of the hypothetical here) so they won't starve that day and I refuse to give them a dollar because they are an unrepentant Nazi, am I a bad person? At what point do I as an individual have the right to not associate with a group or ideology that's seeks my destruction? Because that's really what's at the heart of the matter whether we're talking about Cloudflare or just me because I'm sure that Cloudflare has Jews, racial minorities, and LGBT folks on their staff. And I'm sure even some of those folks are even investors. So why should the investors and employees of Cloudflare protect Nazis who seek their destruction? For money? I can accept that it's a matter of profit, but if you're asking for a moral basis to aid those that want to kill you I can't see there being any argument in favor of protecting or aiding them.

by meric 9y ago

mbrock 9y ago

Well, I might ask whether you think there is a difference between selling food to an individual who happens to be a member of the Nazi party, and catering for a Nazi party event?

meric 9y ago
The bottom line is: Am I going to let a man starve himself to death while I have a shop full of food? No.
- mbrock 9y ago
  What if that man is, for example, threatening your family or friends?
  - meric 9y ago
    In 2017 we have prisons and we don't starve anyone in there.
    - selllikesybok 9y ago
      Well, actually... https://www.google.com/amp/s/spoonuniversity.com/news/the-disgusting-truth-behind-prison-food-in-america/amp https://www.google.com/amp/s/spoonuniversity.com/news/the-di...
- zer0tonin 9y ago
  If letting this man starve himself to death could save hundred of others I wouldn't hesitate.

croon 9y ago

> If they are Nazi's, are they still not human beings deserving to access food in the market? No, they can stop being nazi's at any point. Literally in less than a second. Blacks, jews, gays, disabled people can't. Stop trying to equate the two. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

rayiner 9y ago
People can abandon their religion at any time, but we still protect peoples' religious rights, no matter how odious their beliefs.
- croon 9y ago
  No we don't, not when the religion (badly interpreted) promotes murder, ie radical islam. Are you pretending that nazism can be interpreted charitably? I can kill someone and claim it's for buddhism or my local sports team, but there is no basis for either of those promoting murder. Nazism not so.
  - rayiner 9y ago
    The penalty for leaving Islam (apostasy) is death. Many muslims believe it (like, the majority of the populations of places like Pakistan and Egypt). I guarantee you that you could not, consistent with the Civil Rights Act of 1964, deny service to Muslims merely for expressing the belief that apostates should be put to death.
    - croon 9y ago
      I actually agree with you, and Christianity has the same problem in writing. But the difference (or similarity?) is that only a diminishingly tiny fraction of practitioners for either religion believes in stoning. If I asked you to give me a few key points of the tenets of Islam and Christianity, would any be about killing, eradicating, or persecution of people? If I asked you to do the same for Nazism? Are you going to pretend it's comparable?

coldtea 9y ago

>Does someone being a member of the Nazi party mean we can let them starve to death? Shoot them and push them into a trench even? Historically, yes.

norea-armozel 9y ago

Let me ask you this then. If a homeless Nazi begged me for a dollar to get a McMuffin (not sure if those are on the dollar menu but take it as part of the hypothetical here) so they won't starve that day and I refuse to give them a dollar because they are an unrepentant Nazi, am I a bad person? At what point do I as an individual have the right to not associate with a group or ideology that's seeks my destruction? Because that's really what's at the heart of the matter whether we're talking about Cloudflare or just me because I'm sure that Cloudflare has Jews, racial minorities, and LGBT folks on their staff. And I'm sure even some of those folks are even investors. So why should the investors and employees of Cloudflare protect Nazis who seek their destruction? For money? I can accept that it's a matter of profit, but if you're asking for a moral basis to aid those that want to kill you I can't see there being any argument in favor of protecting or aiding them.