5 ms·

Maybe the LA Times is better: http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-charlottesville-witnesses-20170815-story.html http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-charlottesv

by adekok 9y ago

Maybe the LA Times is better: http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-charlottesville-witnesses-20170815-story.html http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-charlottesville-witnesse... With witness testimony of antifa violence. In my own home town, I've seen the militant left engage in violent protest of "bad people". The "bad people" weren't actually doing anything other than talking. But OMFG we all know they're evil, right? So violent suppression of their free speech is a Good Thing. While I live in a generally left country, and am generally somewhat leftist myself, I find the tactics of the authoritarian left to be abhorrent. If someone can't talk reasonably with people on "the other side", they don't deserve my respect or support.

SwellJoe 9y ago
I don't understand how one can read that and come away with the gist of it being that antifa caused the violence in Charlottesville. The only people saying that are members of right wing extremist organizations that have, as their guiding principle, the genocide of non-white people. These are groups that planned and trained to wage war against counter-protestors, and for weeks leading up to the event posted to their social media about their weapons, smashing people's heads, etc. I've read a number of reports of the events in Charlottesville, and the overwhelming feeling I came away with was that antifa saved lives, in this case. One can reasonably criticize other times antifa has shown up; Berkeley, for example. But, I'm on team antifa in Charlottesville. I sure as hell don't want to be on the side of the Nazis who murdered someone. More eyewitness testimony about antifa in Charlottesville: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/08/what_the_alt_left_was_actually_doing_in_charlottesville.html http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/201... Edit: I think it's really important to recognize that violence is what Neo-Nazis are about. They are not rallying to express opinions, they are rallying to recruit and build a network of impressionable young men who will commit violent acts in pursuit of their goals. They were there specifically to find more people like James Alex Fields. To frame it as a peaceful political rally gone bad is to wholly misunderstand the threat Neo-Nazi organizations pose to our democracy.
- overflowstack 9y ago
  Racism and hate speech are not indications of future violence. You can go to any internet space and find thousands of hateful and racist people. The chances of any of them committing violence is extremely low.
  - SwellJoe 9y ago
    Right wing extremists are responsible for more terrorist attacks on US soil than any other group.
    - boobsbr 9y ago
      Source?
      - SwellJoe 9y ago
        Here are a few: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/25/us/tally-of-attacks-in-us-challenges-perceptions-of-top-terror-threat.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/25/us/tally-of-attacks-in-us... http://www.newsweek.com/2016/02/12/right-wing-extremists-militants-bigger-threat-america-isis-jihadists-422743.html http://www.newsweek.com/2016/02/12/right-wing-extremists-mil... http://www.npr.org/2015/06/24/417192057/right-wing-extremists-more-dangerous-than-islamic-terrorists-in-u-s http://www.npr.org/2015/06/24/417192057/right-wing-extremist... http://www.newsweek.com/right-wing-extremism-islamist-terrorism-donald-trump-steve-bannon-628381 http://www.newsweek.com/right-wing-extremism-islamist-terror... http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/aug/16/look-data-domestic-terrorism-and-whos-behind-it/ http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/aug/16/... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/terrorism-right-wing-america-muslims-islam-white-supremacists-study-a7805831.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics...
        wooter 9y ago
        so? do you want to forgo the civil rights of muslims on a similar basis? of course not.

by adekok 9y ago

SwellJoe 9y ago

I don't understand how one can read that and come away with the gist of it being that antifa caused the violence in Charlottesville. The only people saying that are members of right wing extremist organizations that have, as their guiding principle, the genocide of non-white people. These are groups that planned and trained to wage war against counter-protestors, and for weeks leading up to the event posted to their social media about their weapons, smashing people's heads, etc. I've read a number of reports of the events in Charlottesville, and the overwhelming feeling I came away with was that antifa saved lives, in this case. One can reasonably criticize other times antifa has shown up; Berkeley, for example. But, I'm on team antifa in Charlottesville. I sure as hell don't want to be on the side of the Nazis who murdered someone. More eyewitness testimony about antifa in Charlottesville: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/08/what_the_alt_left_was_actually_doing_in_charlottesville.html http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/201... Edit: I think it's really important to recognize that violence is what Neo-Nazis are about. They are not rallying to express opinions, they are rallying to recruit and build a network of impressionable young men who will commit violent acts in pursuit of their goals. They were there specifically to find more people like James Alex Fields. To frame it as a peaceful political rally gone bad is to wholly misunderstand the threat Neo-Nazi organizations pose to our democracy.

overflowstack 9y ago
Racism and hate speech are not indications of future violence. You can go to any internet space and find thousands of hateful and racist people. The chances of any of them committing violence is extremely low.
- SwellJoe 9y ago
  Right wing extremists are responsible for more terrorist attacks on US soil than any other group.
  - boobsbr 9y ago
    Source?
    - SwellJoe 9y ago
      Here are a few: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/25/us/tally-of-attacks-in-us-challenges-perceptions-of-top-terror-threat.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/25/us/tally-of-attacks-in-us... http://www.newsweek.com/2016/02/12/right-wing-extremists-militants-bigger-threat-america-isis-jihadists-422743.html http://www.newsweek.com/2016/02/12/right-wing-extremists-mil... http://www.npr.org/2015/06/24/417192057/right-wing-extremists-more-dangerous-than-islamic-terrorists-in-u-s http://www.npr.org/2015/06/24/417192057/right-wing-extremist... http://www.newsweek.com/right-wing-extremism-islamist-terrorism-donald-trump-steve-bannon-628381 http://www.newsweek.com/right-wing-extremism-islamist-terror... http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/aug/16/look-data-domestic-terrorism-and-whos-behind-it/ http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/aug/16/... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/terrorism-right-wing-america-muslims-islam-white-supremacists-study-a7805831.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics...
      - wooter 9y ago
        so? do you want to forgo the civil rights of muslims on a similar basis? of course not.