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I used to think so too, then I had kids :) One interesting approach is to use snooping tools but to then explicitly tell the kids and to discuss the results pe

I used to think so too, then I had kids :) One interesting approach is to use snooping tools but to then explicitly tell the kids and to discuss the results periodically. I.e., "my job as a parent is to help you figure out how to be a grown up. Part of that is managing money. I noticed you spent money on X and wanted to talk about it" I think for the 'cellphone based GPS-tracking' there was also an explicit rule that the parents wouldn't get the kids in trouble for information gathered from the GPS tracking. They might talk to them about it afterwards, but they wanted the kids to be willing to not circumvent the device for safety purposes. But yeah - it's weird how it both ughs me out and at the same time scratches a deep itch/fear that I'll still be able to keep my kids safe even as they age.

SerLava 9y ago
This always puts it into a bit of perspective for me. We'd had, say, 99999 generations of people precede us. For 1 generation, we've felt that a vital component of every parent-child relationship is actually the United States Air Force Space Command and their array of 24 orbiting spaceships enabling us to pinpoint and record the geographical position of radio tracking devices in our childrens' pockets, via a world-spanning ground-based civilian telecommunications network.
- MikeTheGreat 9y ago
  Well, sure, but we've also had 99999 generations where things like 'infant mortality rate' is a very real, everyday concern, too. Here in the US, those in the middle-upper classes basically don't have to worry about that. Think about it this way - it's 5pm. Your late-elementary school kid is always home by 3pm, or else they've texted/called you to let you know where they are. Today they didn't. It's 5pm. Things are probably fine, but you live in a city and sometimes bad things happen. Wouldn't you rather have a way of checking in, just to make yourself feel better? We have these nice, new technologies that are changing how we live. Networked, pocket computer we keep calling 'phones'; data center clusters you can rent by the minute for your distributed applications; I could go on and on and I'm sure you can, too. Of course we're going to look at ways that we can parent differently, just like we're looking at different approaches to business, medicine, etc. I think what's really interesting about this isn't a simple, binary yes/no on whether to do it, but the possibilities it opens up. It makes for an interesting discussion, if nothing else.
ThrustVectoring 9y ago
Keeping your kids safe at all costs isn't good parenting. It encourages suffocating closeness and loss of independence. The point isn't to get your child to the age of 22 without getting criticized for it. The point is to provide the necessary conditions for a successful adult to form. >"my job as a parent is to help you figure out how to be a grown up. Part of that is managing money. I noticed you spent money on X and wanted to talk about it" This will teach children to spend like someone's watching. It's external motivation, and it's likely counterproductive IMO. Better, in my opinion, is to let them find out the natural consequences of spending money - that is, not having it for other purposes, or needing to do things to get more money.
- davidgould 9y ago
  > The point is to provide the necessary conditions for a successful adult to form.T +1000 When I grew up it was routine for children to deceive their parents, especially about stuff like friends, smoking, drugs, drinking, sex etc. The assumed parental answer was always no so if you did any of that stuff you had to hide it. It was amazingly easy, we (four brothers) lead our secret lives and the parents mostly had no idea. There are problems with this: if the child gets in a bind there is no way they can ask for advice or help; if the parent finds out and overreacts badly it can seriously damage the relationship. I have a stepfather who I've never contacted since leaving home partly due to this. Raising our son my wife and I agreed (mostly) that there is no practical way to completely control a _person_ and that trying to do so would just make him hide things from us. We thought the best we could do was to try to instill decent values and good judgment and to avoid useless opposition. This was a bit scary sometimes, "good judgment" and "14 year old boy" are not an obvious combination. He has turned out really well. It may have been just good luck, but I like to think that we avoided a lot of the mistakes our own parents made and that it helped. As for allowance, we tried to pick a reasonable basic amount for the age and set no conditions. He could earn extra by doing extra work around the house. We also set up "Bank of Dad" where he could save money and get a good return. Learning how to make choices was definitely part of the plan. Chores were not optional but were not tied to allowance. This was not completely satisfactory as he often delayed chores more than we liked unless cajoled into it somehow. I do this too sometimes.

SerLava 9y ago

This always puts it into a bit of perspective for me. We'd had, say, 99999 generations of people precede us. For 1 generation, we've felt that a vital component of every parent-child relationship is actually the United States Air Force Space Command and their array of 24 orbiting spaceships enabling us to pinpoint and record the geographical position of radio tracking devices in our childrens' pockets, via a world-spanning ground-based civilian telecommunications network.

MikeTheGreat 9y ago
Well, sure, but we've also had 99999 generations where things like 'infant mortality rate' is a very real, everyday concern, too. Here in the US, those in the middle-upper classes basically don't have to worry about that. Think about it this way - it's 5pm. Your late-elementary school kid is always home by 3pm, or else they've texted/called you to let you know where they are. Today they didn't. It's 5pm. Things are probably fine, but you live in a city and sometimes bad things happen. Wouldn't you rather have a way of checking in, just to make yourself feel better? We have these nice, new technologies that are changing how we live. Networked, pocket computer we keep calling 'phones'; data center clusters you can rent by the minute for your distributed applications; I could go on and on and I'm sure you can, too. Of course we're going to look at ways that we can parent differently, just like we're looking at different approaches to business, medicine, etc. I think what's really interesting about this isn't a simple, binary yes/no on whether to do it, but the possibilities it opens up. It makes for an interesting discussion, if nothing else.

ThrustVectoring 9y ago

Keeping your kids safe at all costs isn't good parenting. It encourages suffocating closeness and loss of independence. The point isn't to get your child to the age of 22 without getting criticized for it. The point is to provide the necessary conditions for a successful adult to form. >"my job as a parent is to help you figure out how to be a grown up. Part of that is managing money. I noticed you spent money on X and wanted to talk about it" This will teach children to spend like someone's watching. It's external motivation, and it's likely counterproductive IMO. Better, in my opinion, is to let them find out the natural consequences of spending money - that is, not having it for other purposes, or needing to do things to get more money.

davidgould 9y ago
> The point is to provide the necessary conditions for a successful adult to form.T +1000 When I grew up it was routine for children to deceive their parents, especially about stuff like friends, smoking, drugs, drinking, sex etc. The assumed parental answer was always no so if you did any of that stuff you had to hide it. It was amazingly easy, we (four brothers) lead our secret lives and the parents mostly had no idea. There are problems with this: if the child gets in a bind there is no way they can ask for advice or help; if the parent finds out and overreacts badly it can seriously damage the relationship. I have a stepfather who I've never contacted since leaving home partly due to this. Raising our son my wife and I agreed (mostly) that there is no practical way to completely control a _person_ and that trying to do so would just make him hide things from us. We thought the best we could do was to try to instill decent values and good judgment and to avoid useless opposition. This was a bit scary sometimes, "good judgment" and "14 year old boy" are not an obvious combination. He has turned out really well. It may have been just good luck, but I like to think that we avoided a lot of the mistakes our own parents made and that it helped. As for allowance, we tried to pick a reasonable basic amount for the age and set no conditions. He could earn extra by doing extra work around the house. We also set up "Bank of Dad" where he could save money and get a good return. Learning how to make choices was definitely part of the plan. Chores were not optional but were not tied to allowance. This was not completely satisfactory as he often delayed chores more than we liked unless cajoled into it somehow. I do this too sometimes.