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> And that, in fact, _does_ makes it hard to avoid using facebook without being left out. I think you might mean _fear_ of being left out...friends will find o

> And that, in fact, _does_ makes it hard to avoid using facebook without being left out. I think you might mean _fear_ of being left out...friends will find other ways to contact you.

compiler-guy 9y ago
Fear has nothing to do with it. When I was not on facebook, I was getting left out of activities and events that weren't exactly with friends, but more with common interests.
tedunangst 9y ago
Or not. Maybe they just decide it's not worth the hassle of tracking down the outliers. I guess we can argue that anybody who's a real friend will message you using your preferred comm, though that cuts both ways. If you are a real friend, you'd message them back with their preferred system.
- michaelmrose 9y ago
  Email is a system which you can assume virtually 100% of users have and doesn't force users to participate in a social network that has been shown to be harmful for a lot of users. Further email doesn't force you to participate in any particular service at all because it is a federated service. Assuming that someone should get a facebook to talk to you is like assuming someone should switch to sprint to call you. Imagine how moronic the world would be if all the different phone networks were disconnected from one another.
  - compiler-guy 9y ago
    Regardless of the morality, weirdness or absurdness, that ship has sailed. Many, many groups only use facebook, and if you want to be a part of them, you have to as well. I agree it is suboptimal, and whether or not it is worth the tradeoff is an individual decision, but that is the world we live in. The group level is where most of the rubber meets the road here.
  - tedunangst 9y ago
    I would estimate at most 10% of my Facebook friends have the same email address today that they had on the day we connected.
  - EGreg 9y ago
    I bet most teens do not use email for anything except work stuff.
    - michaelmrose 9y ago
      How is your guess about other people useful info?
      - EGreg 9y ago
        How is the parent comment's guess about 100% of people having email useful?
        pessimizer 9y ago
        That it is true, and a communication system?
        skinnymuch 9y ago
        But if many don't use email much, how does it help? I barely check my personal email. And no one in my normal life knows my business email. Once in while a family member or friend will send something unimportant via email. Either I never see it. Or I see it a week or month afterward. My career relates strongly to the internet too.
        michaelmrose 9y ago
        If you don't respond to email and I don't communicate with you in person or on the phone I assume you are uninterested personally or professionally and take my friendship or business elsewhere. Answering email is really a pretty normal expectation.
        EGreg 9y ago
        So is facebook for friendship lol If you ask for their email and they offer to friend you, and you decline, should they assume you don't want to be in the loop for things? Your arguments for email as a platform equally apply to facebook. Yeah email is decentralized and oldsr, but that stuff doesn't matter to regular people who want the easiest tool for the job.
- muninn_ 9y ago
  Or maybe they aren't real friends? I don't use it, friends still invite me to things. If something like how to communicate is in the way of your friendship, be thankful you're cutting out people that don't really matter in your life.
- chrischen 9y ago
  If you’re considered an outlier then you should probably start finding new friends. Generally back when I used facebook the cloests friends I had had 0 interaction on facebook and we usually just direct message through messenger or imessage. Fscebook at that time was just for maintaining those “outlier” relationships until I realized its better to have closer bonds with fewer people.
- tripzilch 9y ago
  Huh? "Preferred" doesn't cut both ways. It never does, unless it's a shared preference. Using any shared method of communication to contact each other is what real friends do. Also a group that "just decides" outliers are not worth the hassle, are not friends. They seriously are not. Friend groups are pretty much defined as the sort of groups that do not do this. Except in cases of grave social misconduct, often destroying the "group" or "friend" aspect in the process. They are a group, yes. And indeed, some groups will sometimes just decide to ostracise outliers if it conflicts with the group identity. Nothing inherently wrong with that, btw, this can be very useful for certain types of group. As long as it doesn't become the main type of group you identify with. Because then, as we see from all the people making excuses all over this thread, not adhering to certain rules of the group-identity becomes an existential fear of epic proportions, because it touches upon a very fundamental behavioural aspect of our biology--fear of being cast out of the tribe (which used to mean suffering followed by near-certain death). Facebook is currently exploiting this behavioural trigger (together with an addictive cocktail of other triggers) in a quarter of the world's population.
ozim 9y ago
So you are basically saying that you can be an ass and make it harder for others to contact you. Then if they are worthy enough you they will spend their time installing whatever communication tool you use. I do not get the feeling that I can be a princess and I also have to care about relation.
ozim 9y ago
So you are basically saying that you can be an ass and make it harder for others to contact you. Then if they are worthy enough you they will spend their time installing whatever communication tool you use. I do not get the feeling that I can be a princess and I also have to care about relation.
komali2 9y ago
I don't think this is true. We always have that moment at parties, "Where's Kyle? Oh shit, he deleted his facebook and didn't see the invite, did anybody text him to tell him?!" No, we didn't, because 99% of our friends use the very useful party organizing app with integrated chat and picture sharing, Facebook.
- Prefinem 9y ago
  Those aren't your friends buddy. >No, we didn't, because 99% of our friends use the very useful party organizing app with integrated chat and picture sharing, Facebook. My friends will actively invite me (I don't use facebook) to events if they want me there.
  - compiler-guy 9y ago
    And here we see the mismatch between the two camps: Sure, [good|strong|old|pick your adjective] friends will contact you regardless of your facebook involvement. But there are plenty of acquaintances, groups, events and whatnot that only get organized or contacted on facebook. And even so, why would you put the extra burden on your friends to contact you in a special way? Why wouldn't you make it easy for them to contact you? If I live on a mountain, 1,000 miles from everyone, people--even my friends--don't invite me to their parties because they don't think I'm available. I have isolated myself, and people take social cues from that. People also take clues from social isolation. I'm reminded of when I set my mother up for email. She really didn't think she needed it or would want it, "Getting a stamp just isn't that hard." But the fact of the matter is that the lower friction method of communication enabled her to be in contact with many, many more people. Facebook is even lower friction than that. "Those aren't your friends" ignores too many realities of life.
    - Prefinem 9y ago
      > And even so, why would you put the extra burden on your friends to contact you in a special way? Why wouldn't you make it easy for them to contact you? Texting is just as easy as facebook messaging. Or they can use discord, slack, etc etc. facebook isn't the only way to contact someone that is easy. > But there are plenty of acquaintances, groups, events and whatnot that only get organized or contacted on facebook. Maybe this is because I grew an introvert, but I can deal with being by myself as well as most of my friends. Going to events, etc isn't a must have. It's something that you can do if you want too. If I want to go hang out, then I will contact people. I will make it easy for them to say yes/no/no response. But I don't have to be apart of every group meeting, or every little discussion.

> And that, in fact, _does_ makes it hard to avoid using facebook without being left out. I think you might mean _fear_ of being left out...friends will find other ways to contact you.

compiler-guy 9y ago

Fear has nothing to do with it. When I was not on facebook, I was getting left out of activities and events that weren't exactly with friends, but more with common interests.

tedunangst 9y ago

Or not. Maybe they just decide it's not worth the hassle of tracking down the outliers. I guess we can argue that anybody who's a real friend will message you using your preferred comm, though that cuts both ways. If you are a real friend, you'd message them back with their preferred system.

michaelmrose 9y ago
Email is a system which you can assume virtually 100% of users have and doesn't force users to participate in a social network that has been shown to be harmful for a lot of users. Further email doesn't force you to participate in any particular service at all because it is a federated service. Assuming that someone should get a facebook to talk to you is like assuming someone should switch to sprint to call you. Imagine how moronic the world would be if all the different phone networks were disconnected from one another.
- compiler-guy 9y ago
  Regardless of the morality, weirdness or absurdness, that ship has sailed. Many, many groups only use facebook, and if you want to be a part of them, you have to as well. I agree it is suboptimal, and whether or not it is worth the tradeoff is an individual decision, but that is the world we live in. The group level is where most of the rubber meets the road here.
- tedunangst 9y ago
  I would estimate at most 10% of my Facebook friends have the same email address today that they had on the day we connected.
- EGreg 9y ago
  I bet most teens do not use email for anything except work stuff.
  - michaelmrose 9y ago
    How is your guess about other people useful info?
    - EGreg 9y ago
      How is the parent comment's guess about 100% of people having email useful?
      - pessimizer 9y ago
        That it is true, and a communication system?
        skinnymuch 9y ago
        But if many don't use email much, how does it help? I barely check my personal email. And no one in my normal life knows my business email. Once in while a family member or friend will send something unimportant via email. Either I never see it. Or I see it a week or month afterward. My career relates strongly to the internet too.
        michaelmrose 9y ago
        If you don't respond to email and I don't communicate with you in person or on the phone I assume you are uninterested personally or professionally and take my friendship or business elsewhere. Answering email is really a pretty normal expectation.
        EGreg 9y ago
        So is facebook for friendship lol If you ask for their email and they offer to friend you, and you decline, should they assume you don't want to be in the loop for things? Your arguments for email as a platform equally apply to facebook. Yeah email is decentralized and oldsr, but that stuff doesn't matter to regular people who want the easiest tool for the job.
muninn_ 9y ago
Or maybe they aren't real friends? I don't use it, friends still invite me to things. If something like how to communicate is in the way of your friendship, be thankful you're cutting out people that don't really matter in your life.
chrischen 9y ago
If you’re considered an outlier then you should probably start finding new friends. Generally back when I used facebook the cloests friends I had had 0 interaction on facebook and we usually just direct message through messenger or imessage. Fscebook at that time was just for maintaining those “outlier” relationships until I realized its better to have closer bonds with fewer people.
tripzilch 9y ago
Huh? "Preferred" doesn't cut both ways. It never does, unless it's a shared preference. Using any shared method of communication to contact each other is what real friends do. Also a group that "just decides" outliers are not worth the hassle, are not friends. They seriously are not. Friend groups are pretty much defined as the sort of groups that do not do this. Except in cases of grave social misconduct, often destroying the "group" or "friend" aspect in the process. They are a group, yes. And indeed, some groups will sometimes just decide to ostracise outliers if it conflicts with the group identity. Nothing inherently wrong with that, btw, this can be very useful for certain types of group. As long as it doesn't become the main type of group you identify with. Because then, as we see from all the people making excuses all over this thread, not adhering to certain rules of the group-identity becomes an existential fear of epic proportions, because it touches upon a very fundamental behavioural aspect of our biology--fear of being cast out of the tribe (which used to mean suffering followed by near-certain death). Facebook is currently exploiting this behavioural trigger (together with an addictive cocktail of other triggers) in a quarter of the world's population.

ozim 9y ago

So you are basically saying that you can be an ass and make it harder for others to contact you. Then if they are worthy enough you they will spend their time installing whatever communication tool you use. I do not get the feeling that I can be a princess and I also have to care about relation.

ozim 9y ago

komali2 9y ago

I don't think this is true. We always have that moment at parties, "Where's Kyle? Oh shit, he deleted his facebook and didn't see the invite, did anybody text him to tell him?!" No, we didn't, because 99% of our friends use the very useful party organizing app with integrated chat and picture sharing, Facebook.

Prefinem 9y ago
Those aren't your friends buddy. >No, we didn't, because 99% of our friends use the very useful party organizing app with integrated chat and picture sharing, Facebook. My friends will actively invite me (I don't use facebook) to events if they want me there.
- compiler-guy 9y ago
  And here we see the mismatch between the two camps: Sure, [good|strong|old|pick your adjective] friends will contact you regardless of your facebook involvement. But there are plenty of acquaintances, groups, events and whatnot that only get organized or contacted on facebook. And even so, why would you put the extra burden on your friends to contact you in a special way? Why wouldn't you make it easy for them to contact you? If I live on a mountain, 1,000 miles from everyone, people--even my friends--don't invite me to their parties because they don't think I'm available. I have isolated myself, and people take social cues from that. People also take clues from social isolation. I'm reminded of when I set my mother up for email. She really didn't think she needed it or would want it, "Getting a stamp just isn't that hard." But the fact of the matter is that the lower friction method of communication enabled her to be in contact with many, many more people. Facebook is even lower friction than that. "Those aren't your friends" ignores too many realities of life.
  - Prefinem 9y ago
    > And even so, why would you put the extra burden on your friends to contact you in a special way? Why wouldn't you make it easy for them to contact you? Texting is just as easy as facebook messaging. Or they can use discord, slack, etc etc. facebook isn't the only way to contact someone that is easy. > But there are plenty of acquaintances, groups, events and whatnot that only get organized or contacted on facebook. Maybe this is because I grew an introvert, but I can deal with being by myself as well as most of my friends. Going to events, etc isn't a must have. It's something that you can do if you want too. If I want to go hang out, then I will contact people. I will make it easy for them to say yes/no/no response. But I don't have to be apart of every group meeting, or every little discussion.