9 ms·

This is a painfully simplistic response. No matter what I do, several activities and groups I want to be a part of are only advertised and organized on faceboo

This is a painfully simplistic response. No matter what I do, several activities and groups I want to be a part of are only advertised and organized on facebook. It's not within my power to change that. And that, in fact, _does_ makes it hard to avoid using facebook without being left out.

tdurden 9y ago
> And that, in fact, _does_ makes it hard to avoid using facebook without being left out. I think you might mean _fear_ of being left out...friends will find other ways to contact you.
- compiler-guy 9y ago
  Fear has nothing to do with it. When I was not on facebook, I was getting left out of activities and events that weren't exactly with friends, but more with common interests.
- tedunangst 9y ago
  Or not. Maybe they just decide it's not worth the hassle of tracking down the outliers. I guess we can argue that anybody who's a real friend will message you using your preferred comm, though that cuts both ways. If you are a real friend, you'd message them back with their preferred system.
  - michaelmrose 9y ago
    Email is a system which you can assume virtually 100% of users have and doesn't force users to participate in a social network that has been shown to be harmful for a lot of users. Further email doesn't force you to participate in any particular service at all because it is a federated service. Assuming that someone should get a facebook to talk to you is like assuming someone should switch to sprint to call you. Imagine how moronic the world would be if all the different phone networks were disconnected from one another.
    - compiler-guy 9y ago
      Regardless of the morality, weirdness or absurdness, that ship has sailed. Many, many groups only use facebook, and if you want to be a part of them, you have to as well. I agree it is suboptimal, and whether or not it is worth the tradeoff is an individual decision, but that is the world we live in. The group level is where most of the rubber meets the road here.
    - tedunangst 9y ago
      I would estimate at most 10% of my Facebook friends have the same email address today that they had on the day we connected.
    - EGreg 9y ago
      I bet most teens do not use email for anything except work stuff.
      - michaelmrose 9y ago
        How is your guess about other people useful info?
        EGreg 9y ago
        How is the parent comment's guess about 100% of people having email useful?
        pessimizer 9y ago
        That it is true, and a communication system?
        skinnymuch 9y ago
        But if many don't use email much, how does it help? I barely check my personal email. And no one in my normal life knows my business email. Once in while a family member or friend will send something unimportant via email. Either I never see it. Or I see it a week or month afterward. My career relates strongly to the internet too.
  - muninn_ 9y ago
    Or maybe they aren't real friends? I don't use it, friends still invite me to things. If something like how to communicate is in the way of your friendship, be thankful you're cutting out people that don't really matter in your life.
  - chrischen 9y ago
    If you’re considered an outlier then you should probably start finding new friends. Generally back when I used facebook the cloests friends I had had 0 interaction on facebook and we usually just direct message through messenger or imessage. Fscebook at that time was just for maintaining those “outlier” relationships until I realized its better to have closer bonds with fewer people.
  - tripzilch 9y ago
    Huh? "Preferred" doesn't cut both ways. It never does, unless it's a shared preference. Using any shared method of communication to contact each other is what real friends do. Also a group that "just decides" outliers are not worth the hassle, are not friends. They seriously are not. Friend groups are pretty much defined as the sort of groups that do not do this. Except in cases of grave social misconduct, often destroying the "group" or "friend" aspect in the process. They are a group, yes. And indeed, some groups will sometimes just decide to ostracise outliers if it conflicts with the group identity. Nothing inherently wrong with that, btw, this can be very useful for certain types of group. As long as it doesn't become the main type of group you identify with. Because then, as we see from all the people making excuses all over this thread, not adhering to certain rules of the group-identity becomes an existential fear of epic proportions, because it touches upon a very fundamental behavioural aspect of our biology--fear of being cast out of the tribe (which used to mean suffering followed by near-certain death). Facebook is currently exploiting this behavioural trigger (together with an addictive cocktail of other triggers) in a quarter of the world's population.
- ozim 9y ago
  So you are basically saying that you can be an ass and make it harder for others to contact you. Then if they are worthy enough you they will spend their time installing whatever communication tool you use. I do not get the feeling that I can be a princess and I also have to care about relation.
- ozim 9y ago
  So you are basically saying that you can be an ass and make it harder for others to contact you. Then if they are worthy enough you they will spend their time installing whatever communication tool you use. I do not get the feeling that I can be a princess and I also have to care about relation.
- komali2 9y ago
  I don't think this is true. We always have that moment at parties, "Where's Kyle? Oh shit, he deleted his facebook and didn't see the invite, did anybody text him to tell him?!" No, we didn't, because 99% of our friends use the very useful party organizing app with integrated chat and picture sharing, Facebook.
  - Prefinem 9y ago
    Those aren't your friends buddy. >No, we didn't, because 99% of our friends use the very useful party organizing app with integrated chat and picture sharing, Facebook. My friends will actively invite me (I don't use facebook) to events if they want me there.
    - compiler-guy 9y ago
      And here we see the mismatch between the two camps: Sure, [good|strong|old|pick your adjective] friends will contact you regardless of your facebook involvement. But there are plenty of acquaintances, groups, events and whatnot that only get organized or contacted on facebook. And even so, why would you put the extra burden on your friends to contact you in a special way? Why wouldn't you make it easy for them to contact you? If I live on a mountain, 1,000 miles from everyone, people--even my friends--don't invite me to their parties because they don't think I'm available. I have isolated myself, and people take social cues from that. People also take clues from social isolation. I'm reminded of when I set my mother up for email. She really didn't think she needed it or would want it, "Getting a stamp just isn't that hard." But the fact of the matter is that the lower friction method of communication enabled her to be in contact with many, many more people. Facebook is even lower friction than that. "Those aren't your friends" ignores too many realities of life.
      - Prefinem 9y ago
        > And even so, why would you put the extra burden on your friends to contact you in a special way? Why wouldn't you make it easy for them to contact you? Texting is just as easy as facebook messaging. Or they can use discord, slack, etc etc. facebook isn't the only way to contact someone that is easy. > But there are plenty of acquaintances, groups, events and whatnot that only get organized or contacted on facebook. Maybe this is because I grew an introvert, but I can deal with being by myself as well as most of my friends. Going to events, etc isn't a must have. It's something that you can do if you want too. If I want to go hang out, then I will contact people. I will make it easy for them to say yes/no/no response. But I don't have to be apart of every group meeting, or every little discussion.
Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago
>No matter what I do, several activities and groups I want to be a part of are only advertised and organized on facebook. It's not within my power to change that. It is. You have the power to choose what you want to be a part of. And these groups have more members than yourself - people who you can ask to help you stay up to date on meetings and such.
- compiler-guy 9y ago
  I never said I didn't have the power to choose not to be a part of these groups. The point is that I want to be a part of them, and doing that without facebook is 10x the additional friction. Yes, I could ask someone to forward me the notices, and activities, but how do you propose I participate in the discussions of what to do? When the voting via facebook poll happens, how do you propose I make my voice heard. Now, you could argue that facebook isn't worth it. (And that is a perfectly reasonable position to take.) But that is a different position than, "It's easy to make these things work without facebook."
- debaserab2 9y ago
  I'm sorry, but get real. People use technology because it assists and speeds up areas of their life. For many people, facebook far and away is the most convenient way to manage their social life simply because they have the greatest adoption within their social groups. Yes, we could "write someone a letter in the mail instead" or "ask a friend about the events on facebook" but that would defeat the point for the vast majority of us that aren't interested in spending hours managing our social contacts and calendars. You're not really giving solutions when you suggest things like that.
  - Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago
    The point I'm making is thus: if you acknowledge that Facebook is a bad influence on your life but you feel stuck with it, here's a low risk strategy for dipping your toes into life without it that you can try out. I don't spend hours managing my social contacts and calendars and I still feel connected with my family and my friends without Facebook. I'd like to point out that this thread has depressingly similar patterns compared to talking with drug addicts about their habit.
michaelmrose 9y ago
Promote giving up facebook or advertising via alternative means both to whomever organizes it and among your fellow users. Volunteer to help with those alternative means.
- compiler-guy 9y ago
  Ask everyone to sign up for different methods of communication. Pick a method for managing the lists. Avoid the additional publicity public facebook postings get you when someone likes it. Those are real tradeoffs that many groups aren't willing to accept, regardless of how willing a single person is to shoulder the burden.
  - DrScump 9y ago
    Ask everyone to sign up for different methods of communication That's exactly what you are doing by insisting on Facebook use unnecessarily, when email is the true common denominator (doesn't everyone in your friends list have email?).
    - compiler-guy 9y ago
      Nearly everyone is already there, and the number that isn't continues to fall every year. Yes everyone already has email, but list management and group organization is much worse. Even compared to Google groups. And the fact is that most people prefer it.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
__jal 9y ago
I don't use FB at all, and haven't, ever. I'm a part of two groups that do most of their business on FB, in an official role in one of them. I don't miss anything important, and find it beneficial that I miss the rest[1]. I've refused to be blackmailed into Facebook use by my family, so there's zero chance a friend or associate will get away with it. If people can't be arsed to email me about something they consider significant, I don't have time for them either. FOMO is a condition that happens in your head, as is how you let your peers treat you. It is within your power to deal with it. [1] I don't discount that informal bonding, chit-chat, etc.; it is an important part of a healthy lifestyle, group formation, etc. I prefer the in-person sort, and for virtual, there's a whole internet out there that is not FB.

tdurden 9y ago

> And that, in fact, _does_ makes it hard to avoid using facebook without being left out. I think you might mean _fear_ of being left out...friends will find other ways to contact you.

compiler-guy 9y ago
Fear has nothing to do with it. When I was not on facebook, I was getting left out of activities and events that weren't exactly with friends, but more with common interests.
tedunangst 9y ago
Or not. Maybe they just decide it's not worth the hassle of tracking down the outliers. I guess we can argue that anybody who's a real friend will message you using your preferred comm, though that cuts both ways. If you are a real friend, you'd message them back with their preferred system.
- michaelmrose 9y ago
  Email is a system which you can assume virtually 100% of users have and doesn't force users to participate in a social network that has been shown to be harmful for a lot of users. Further email doesn't force you to participate in any particular service at all because it is a federated service. Assuming that someone should get a facebook to talk to you is like assuming someone should switch to sprint to call you. Imagine how moronic the world would be if all the different phone networks were disconnected from one another.
  - compiler-guy 9y ago
    Regardless of the morality, weirdness or absurdness, that ship has sailed. Many, many groups only use facebook, and if you want to be a part of them, you have to as well. I agree it is suboptimal, and whether or not it is worth the tradeoff is an individual decision, but that is the world we live in. The group level is where most of the rubber meets the road here.
  - tedunangst 9y ago
    I would estimate at most 10% of my Facebook friends have the same email address today that they had on the day we connected.
  - EGreg 9y ago
    I bet most teens do not use email for anything except work stuff.
    - michaelmrose 9y ago
      How is your guess about other people useful info?
      - EGreg 9y ago
        How is the parent comment's guess about 100% of people having email useful?
        pessimizer 9y ago
        That it is true, and a communication system?
        skinnymuch 9y ago
        But if many don't use email much, how does it help? I barely check my personal email. And no one in my normal life knows my business email. Once in while a family member or friend will send something unimportant via email. Either I never see it. Or I see it a week or month afterward. My career relates strongly to the internet too.
- muninn_ 9y ago
  Or maybe they aren't real friends? I don't use it, friends still invite me to things. If something like how to communicate is in the way of your friendship, be thankful you're cutting out people that don't really matter in your life.
- chrischen 9y ago
  If you’re considered an outlier then you should probably start finding new friends. Generally back when I used facebook the cloests friends I had had 0 interaction on facebook and we usually just direct message through messenger or imessage. Fscebook at that time was just for maintaining those “outlier” relationships until I realized its better to have closer bonds with fewer people.
- tripzilch 9y ago
  Huh? "Preferred" doesn't cut both ways. It never does, unless it's a shared preference. Using any shared method of communication to contact each other is what real friends do. Also a group that "just decides" outliers are not worth the hassle, are not friends. They seriously are not. Friend groups are pretty much defined as the sort of groups that do not do this. Except in cases of grave social misconduct, often destroying the "group" or "friend" aspect in the process. They are a group, yes. And indeed, some groups will sometimes just decide to ostracise outliers if it conflicts with the group identity. Nothing inherently wrong with that, btw, this can be very useful for certain types of group. As long as it doesn't become the main type of group you identify with. Because then, as we see from all the people making excuses all over this thread, not adhering to certain rules of the group-identity becomes an existential fear of epic proportions, because it touches upon a very fundamental behavioural aspect of our biology--fear of being cast out of the tribe (which used to mean suffering followed by near-certain death). Facebook is currently exploiting this behavioural trigger (together with an addictive cocktail of other triggers) in a quarter of the world's population.
ozim 9y ago
So you are basically saying that you can be an ass and make it harder for others to contact you. Then if they are worthy enough you they will spend their time installing whatever communication tool you use. I do not get the feeling that I can be a princess and I also have to care about relation.
ozim 9y ago
So you are basically saying that you can be an ass and make it harder for others to contact you. Then if they are worthy enough you they will spend their time installing whatever communication tool you use. I do not get the feeling that I can be a princess and I also have to care about relation.
komali2 9y ago
I don't think this is true. We always have that moment at parties, "Where's Kyle? Oh shit, he deleted his facebook and didn't see the invite, did anybody text him to tell him?!" No, we didn't, because 99% of our friends use the very useful party organizing app with integrated chat and picture sharing, Facebook.
- Prefinem 9y ago
  Those aren't your friends buddy. >No, we didn't, because 99% of our friends use the very useful party organizing app with integrated chat and picture sharing, Facebook. My friends will actively invite me (I don't use facebook) to events if they want me there.
  - compiler-guy 9y ago
    And here we see the mismatch between the two camps: Sure, [good|strong|old|pick your adjective] friends will contact you regardless of your facebook involvement. But there are plenty of acquaintances, groups, events and whatnot that only get organized or contacted on facebook. And even so, why would you put the extra burden on your friends to contact you in a special way? Why wouldn't you make it easy for them to contact you? If I live on a mountain, 1,000 miles from everyone, people--even my friends--don't invite me to their parties because they don't think I'm available. I have isolated myself, and people take social cues from that. People also take clues from social isolation. I'm reminded of when I set my mother up for email. She really didn't think she needed it or would want it, "Getting a stamp just isn't that hard." But the fact of the matter is that the lower friction method of communication enabled her to be in contact with many, many more people. Facebook is even lower friction than that. "Those aren't your friends" ignores too many realities of life.
    - Prefinem 9y ago
      > And even so, why would you put the extra burden on your friends to contact you in a special way? Why wouldn't you make it easy for them to contact you? Texting is just as easy as facebook messaging. Or they can use discord, slack, etc etc. facebook isn't the only way to contact someone that is easy. > But there are plenty of acquaintances, groups, events and whatnot that only get organized or contacted on facebook. Maybe this is because I grew an introvert, but I can deal with being by myself as well as most of my friends. Going to events, etc isn't a must have. It's something that you can do if you want too. If I want to go hang out, then I will contact people. I will make it easy for them to say yes/no/no response. But I don't have to be apart of every group meeting, or every little discussion.

Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago

>No matter what I do, several activities and groups I want to be a part of are only advertised and organized on facebook. It's not within my power to change that. It is. You have the power to choose what you want to be a part of. And these groups have more members than yourself - people who you can ask to help you stay up to date on meetings and such.

compiler-guy 9y ago
I never said I didn't have the power to choose not to be a part of these groups. The point is that I want to be a part of them, and doing that without facebook is 10x the additional friction. Yes, I could ask someone to forward me the notices, and activities, but how do you propose I participate in the discussions of what to do? When the voting via facebook poll happens, how do you propose I make my voice heard. Now, you could argue that facebook isn't worth it. (And that is a perfectly reasonable position to take.) But that is a different position than, "It's easy to make these things work without facebook."
debaserab2 9y ago
I'm sorry, but get real. People use technology because it assists and speeds up areas of their life. For many people, facebook far and away is the most convenient way to manage their social life simply because they have the greatest adoption within their social groups. Yes, we could "write someone a letter in the mail instead" or "ask a friend about the events on facebook" but that would defeat the point for the vast majority of us that aren't interested in spending hours managing our social contacts and calendars. You're not really giving solutions when you suggest things like that.
- Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago
  The point I'm making is thus: if you acknowledge that Facebook is a bad influence on your life but you feel stuck with it, here's a low risk strategy for dipping your toes into life without it that you can try out. I don't spend hours managing my social contacts and calendars and I still feel connected with my family and my friends without Facebook. I'd like to point out that this thread has depressingly similar patterns compared to talking with drug addicts about their habit.

michaelmrose 9y ago

Promote giving up facebook or advertising via alternative means both to whomever organizes it and among your fellow users. Volunteer to help with those alternative means.

compiler-guy 9y ago
Ask everyone to sign up for different methods of communication. Pick a method for managing the lists. Avoid the additional publicity public facebook postings get you when someone likes it. Those are real tradeoffs that many groups aren't willing to accept, regardless of how willing a single person is to shoulder the burden.
- DrScump 9y ago
  Ask everyone to sign up for different methods of communication That's exactly what you are doing by insisting on Facebook use unnecessarily, when email is the true common denominator (doesn't everyone in your friends list have email?).
  - compiler-guy 9y ago
    Nearly everyone is already there, and the number that isn't continues to fall every year. Yes everyone already has email, but list management and group organization is much worse. Even compared to Google groups. And the fact is that most people prefer it.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

__jal 9y ago

I don't use FB at all, and haven't, ever. I'm a part of two groups that do most of their business on FB, in an official role in one of them. I don't miss anything important, and find it beneficial that I miss the rest[1]. I've refused to be blackmailed into Facebook use by my family, so there's zero chance a friend or associate will get away with it. If people can't be arsed to email me about something they consider significant, I don't have time for them either. FOMO is a condition that happens in your head, as is how you let your peers treat you. It is within your power to deal with it. [1] I don't discount that informal bonding, chit-chat, etc.; it is an important part of a healthy lifestyle, group formation, etc. I prefer the in-person sort, and for virtual, there's a whole internet out there that is not FB.