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The problem is that if the political winds were blowing the other way it could be your favoured group whose beliefs are deemed beyond the pale. We set a dangero

The problem is that if the political winds were blowing the other way it could be your favoured group whose beliefs are deemed beyond the pale. We set a dangerous precedent when we outlaw speech we don't like.

kbenson 9y ago
This isn't outlawing. As the GP noted it's a private company. I have no obligation to be part of the platform for a position I don't support. It's not censorship when I don't give my support. It is when I try to exert control over others. It is when the government exerts that control over us all.
- Boothroid 9y ago
  Outlawing, censorship, call it what you like - it's about removing someone's right to communicate. The fact that it's a private company should worry us more.
  - kbenson 9y ago
    > it's about removing someone's right to communicate. Exactly. Their rights. No rights were affected here. They were given permission to use cloudfare, and that was revoked. The fact they can still go somewhere else proves that no rights were affected.
  - gremlinsinc 9y ago
    Doesn't the ceo / admins of cloudflare have their 'freedom' to choose what goes through their servers? Censorship / Freedom of speech does NOT include companies --it just states the government can't stop free speech (except in some cases like child porn)... but companies aren't the government... stop thinking they are held to the same standard as the constitution.
croon 9y ago
The thing is, if my favoured group specifically revolved around oppression of groups of people (ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender, what have you), I would deserve it. This isn't a tough definition. I'm fine with republicans hating "lefties", broncos hating raiders, xbox hating playstation. When hate is directed at non-chosen traits, that's the red line. Am I crazy? I feel like I am with all this defense of literal nazis (flags, signs, salute, speech and all).
- Frondo 9y ago
  What gets me is that Nazi ideology is itself violent. This isn't a disagreement about taxes or social programs, it's an ideology that led to the Holocaust. Last weekend's terrorist attack on the anti-racist protest, leading to the murder of one anti-racist, tells us exactly where this is going again. That's what makes all the "well free speech" stuff seem so hollow and stupid to me--we know what's at the other end of the Nazi road, and it's nowhere we want to go.
  - reitanqild 9y ago
    Agree. You could also argue this from the "shouting fire in a crowed room" argument - free speech doesn't protect that. Actually spreading nazi ideologogy is even more dangerous.

kbenson 9y ago

This isn't outlawing. As the GP noted it's a private company. I have no obligation to be part of the platform for a position I don't support. It's not censorship when I don't give my support. It is when I try to exert control over others. It is when the government exerts that control over us all.

Boothroid 9y ago
Outlawing, censorship, call it what you like - it's about removing someone's right to communicate. The fact that it's a private company should worry us more.
- kbenson 9y ago
  > it's about removing someone's right to communicate. Exactly. Their rights. No rights were affected here. They were given permission to use cloudfare, and that was revoked. The fact they can still go somewhere else proves that no rights were affected.
- gremlinsinc 9y ago
  Doesn't the ceo / admins of cloudflare have their 'freedom' to choose what goes through their servers? Censorship / Freedom of speech does NOT include companies --it just states the government can't stop free speech (except in some cases like child porn)... but companies aren't the government... stop thinking they are held to the same standard as the constitution.

croon 9y ago

The thing is, if my favoured group specifically revolved around oppression of groups of people (ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender, what have you), I would deserve it. This isn't a tough definition. I'm fine with republicans hating "lefties", broncos hating raiders, xbox hating playstation. When hate is directed at non-chosen traits, that's the red line. Am I crazy? I feel like I am with all this defense of literal nazis (flags, signs, salute, speech and all).

Frondo 9y ago
What gets me is that Nazi ideology is itself violent. This isn't a disagreement about taxes or social programs, it's an ideology that led to the Holocaust. Last weekend's terrorist attack on the anti-racist protest, leading to the murder of one anti-racist, tells us exactly where this is going again. That's what makes all the "well free speech" stuff seem so hollow and stupid to me--we know what's at the other end of the Nazi road, and it's nowhere we want to go.
- reitanqild 9y ago
  Agree. You could also argue this from the "shouting fire in a crowed room" argument - free speech doesn't protect that. Actually spreading nazi ideologogy is even more dangerous.