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It's definitely political posturing/virtue signaling to customers. The big gripe is that Trump didn't explicitly call out white supremacists when denouncing ha

It's definitely political posturing/virtue signaling to customers. The big gripe is that Trump didn't explicitly call out white supremacists when denouncing hate and violence. The Sheriff explicitly stated that there was violent escalation from both the white supremacists and the antifa crowd. A single member of the white racist asshole group escalated the violence to the next level and someone got killed. I'm on board with explicitly calling out the white supremacists, but I think the reaction by the media is eye-rollingly inconsistent. They didn't hold anyone's feet to the fire when BLM killed cops, or antifa has previously escalated to violence. In short, this is fair criticism of Trump, but the scale of the response is kinda ridiculous. But also, I welcome the media to the club. Maybe we'll also get Islamic terrorists called out by their group identity too.

Analemma_ 9y ago
Sigh. "Virtue signaling" has become yet another formerly-useful concept now drained of all meaning because everyone uses it to mean "thing I don't like" (ironically, usually because they're virtue signaling). Listen up: people, including CEOs, actually can have their own opinions on things. They can decide "hey, I don't want to support this guy who refuses to condemn neo-Nazis". That is hardly an unthinkable prospect.
- Consultant32452 9y ago
  A neo-Nazi killed someone and Trump's first response was to condemn all hate and violence. Was that some sort of secrete white supremacist code that meant hate and violence from neo-Nazis is totes cool? Is that seriously your narrative?
  - orclev 9y ago
    The problem is that his first reaction was to basically say both sides were equally wrong. In this context the two sides where A) neo-nazis and white supremacists, and B) counter protestors who were there to oppose the neo-nazis and white supremacists. This was not a BLM rally, this was an alt-right rally. There might have been some BLM members there, there might even have been some antifa there, but the majority of the crowd that was there was a reaction to the alt-right and in opposition to them, not acting as a member of some other group. By saying both sides were equally to blame he was saying that opposing neo-nazis and white supremacists was wrong. Additionally by not calling out the neo-nazis and white supremacists, and instead merely talking about violence, he's tacitly providing support for them, he's saying that it's only the violent act that was wrong, not the racists or fascists.
    - Consultant32452 9y ago
      I'll reiterate myself because it apparently wasn't clear the first time. I agree with your stance. The appropriate thing to do would have been to explicitly call out the group whose violence escalated the highest. But to pretend this is the first of this type of incident is a lie. And to pretend that other groups that lean left have not had politically motivated violence and murder recently is also a lie. I welcome you and the media to the side of wanting to explicitly call out the groups with the bad actors. If you and the media had an equal and opposite response when BLM killed cops and called for the POTUS to explicitly call out BLM, I'd have nothing to say here.
      - HeroOfAges 9y ago
        This is the second time in this discussion that you've referred to Black Lives Matter as an organization that kills or has directed the killing of law enforcement officers. Can you present documented proof?
        Consultant32452 9y ago
        Joseph Thomas Johnson-Shanks murdered a Kentucky State Trooper http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/suspect-trooper-death-black-lives-matter-backer-article-1.2360320 http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/suspect-trooper-dea... Tyrone Harris Jr. fired shots at an unmarked police car, then died in a shootout with the police. He didn't manage to actually kill anyone though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferguson_unrest#Tyrone_Harris_Jr https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferguson_unrest#Tyrone_Harris_.... Jeffrey Williams shot two police officers in relation to BLM protests and demonstrations in Ferguson. Naturally BLM disavowed him. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/16/williams-ferguson-protest_n_6881590.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/16/williams-ferguson-p... Micah Johnson killed 5 officers and wounded several others http://www.nationalreview.com/article/437694/black-lives-matter-hypocrisy-cheering-violence http://www.nationalreview.com/article/437694/black-lives-mat... There's a few others, but it's hard to find reliable sources because the mainstream media has, as I explicitly called them out for, avoided associating these acts of violence with their group identities.
vaishaksuresh 9y ago
The flak that Trump is getting is not because he did not condemn white supremacist groups, it is because he said both groups are same. One was there preaching the idea of owning other people and violence, the second was there to ask for equality. BLM and KKK may both be violent, but they are being violent for different reasons. You can condemn the violence without equating them. It is like saying Nelson Mandela and Pablo Escobar are same because they fought government and went to prison.
- Consultant32452 9y ago
  Both groups deserve equal protection under the law and should have the right to assemble. Any violence against either one is equally problematic. The content of their shitty messages is irrelevant.
  - vaishaksuresh 9y ago
    >The content of their shitty messages is irrelevant To you, but the president endorsing a group or legitimizing the cause of another is not irrelevant.
    - Consultant32452 9y ago
      Again, it's completely fair criticism to call Trump out for not explicitly naming white supremacists or alt-right or whatever in his initial remarks. What I take issue with is that when it's left leaning groups committing similar acts of violence no one on the left and hardly anyone in the national media explicitly calls out Antifa or BLM as having murderers or violent acts carried out amongst its ranks. Are we going to associate everyone with their political identity or not? It's unethical to do it only when it's a political identity you disagree with.
  - tim333 9y ago
    Both groups get equal protection under the law. That's not what's being discussed here. It's more whether they deserve equal criticism by the media and politicians, and there the message is relevant.
HeroOfAges 9y ago
Why do people continue to associate Micah Xavier Johnson with Black Lives Matter? He himself stated he was not affiliated with any movements or groups. Why? Well... I know why, but can someone please point me to any documented proof that Micah Xavier Johnson was an active member of Black Lives Matter?

Analemma_ 9y ago

Sigh. "Virtue signaling" has become yet another formerly-useful concept now drained of all meaning because everyone uses it to mean "thing I don't like" (ironically, usually because they're virtue signaling). Listen up: people, including CEOs, actually can have their own opinions on things. They can decide "hey, I don't want to support this guy who refuses to condemn neo-Nazis". That is hardly an unthinkable prospect.

Consultant32452 9y ago
A neo-Nazi killed someone and Trump's first response was to condemn all hate and violence. Was that some sort of secrete white supremacist code that meant hate and violence from neo-Nazis is totes cool? Is that seriously your narrative?
- orclev 9y ago
  The problem is that his first reaction was to basically say both sides were equally wrong. In this context the two sides where A) neo-nazis and white supremacists, and B) counter protestors who were there to oppose the neo-nazis and white supremacists. This was not a BLM rally, this was an alt-right rally. There might have been some BLM members there, there might even have been some antifa there, but the majority of the crowd that was there was a reaction to the alt-right and in opposition to them, not acting as a member of some other group. By saying both sides were equally to blame he was saying that opposing neo-nazis and white supremacists was wrong. Additionally by not calling out the neo-nazis and white supremacists, and instead merely talking about violence, he's tacitly providing support for them, he's saying that it's only the violent act that was wrong, not the racists or fascists.
  - Consultant32452 9y ago
    I'll reiterate myself because it apparently wasn't clear the first time. I agree with your stance. The appropriate thing to do would have been to explicitly call out the group whose violence escalated the highest. But to pretend this is the first of this type of incident is a lie. And to pretend that other groups that lean left have not had politically motivated violence and murder recently is also a lie. I welcome you and the media to the side of wanting to explicitly call out the groups with the bad actors. If you and the media had an equal and opposite response when BLM killed cops and called for the POTUS to explicitly call out BLM, I'd have nothing to say here.
    - HeroOfAges 9y ago
      This is the second time in this discussion that you've referred to Black Lives Matter as an organization that kills or has directed the killing of law enforcement officers. Can you present documented proof?
      - Consultant32452 9y ago
        Joseph Thomas Johnson-Shanks murdered a Kentucky State Trooper http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/suspect-trooper-death-black-lives-matter-backer-article-1.2360320 http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/suspect-trooper-dea... Tyrone Harris Jr. fired shots at an unmarked police car, then died in a shootout with the police. He didn't manage to actually kill anyone though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferguson_unrest#Tyrone_Harris_Jr https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferguson_unrest#Tyrone_Harris_.... Jeffrey Williams shot two police officers in relation to BLM protests and demonstrations in Ferguson. Naturally BLM disavowed him. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/16/williams-ferguson-protest_n_6881590.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/16/williams-ferguson-p... Micah Johnson killed 5 officers and wounded several others http://www.nationalreview.com/article/437694/black-lives-matter-hypocrisy-cheering-violence http://www.nationalreview.com/article/437694/black-lives-mat... There's a few others, but it's hard to find reliable sources because the mainstream media has, as I explicitly called them out for, avoided associating these acts of violence with their group identities.

vaishaksuresh 9y ago

The flak that Trump is getting is not because he did not condemn white supremacist groups, it is because he said both groups are same. One was there preaching the idea of owning other people and violence, the second was there to ask for equality. BLM and KKK may both be violent, but they are being violent for different reasons. You can condemn the violence without equating them. It is like saying Nelson Mandela and Pablo Escobar are same because they fought government and went to prison.

Consultant32452 9y ago
Both groups deserve equal protection under the law and should have the right to assemble. Any violence against either one is equally problematic. The content of their shitty messages is irrelevant.
- vaishaksuresh 9y ago
  >The content of their shitty messages is irrelevant To you, but the president endorsing a group or legitimizing the cause of another is not irrelevant.
  - Consultant32452 9y ago
    Again, it's completely fair criticism to call Trump out for not explicitly naming white supremacists or alt-right or whatever in his initial remarks. What I take issue with is that when it's left leaning groups committing similar acts of violence no one on the left and hardly anyone in the national media explicitly calls out Antifa or BLM as having murderers or violent acts carried out amongst its ranks. Are we going to associate everyone with their political identity or not? It's unethical to do it only when it's a political identity you disagree with.
- tim333 9y ago
  Both groups get equal protection under the law. That's not what's being discussed here. It's more whether they deserve equal criticism by the media and politicians, and there the message is relevant.

HeroOfAges 9y ago

Why do people continue to associate Micah Xavier Johnson with Black Lives Matter? He himself stated he was not affiliated with any movements or groups. Why? Well... I know why, but can someone please point me to any documented proof that Micah Xavier Johnson was an active member of Black Lives Matter?