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This is exactly the way the white supremacists want you to think. They want you to normalize them and say, 'All violence is bad - from either side.' "First, I

This is exactly the way the white supremacists want you to think. They want you to normalize them and say, 'All violence is bad - from either side.' "First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45a/060.html http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45a/060.html

cyphar 9y ago
All authoritarian, violent actors want you to think that violence (especially of the preemptive variety) is justified for their particular set of ideals. The viewpoint discussed in that MLK quote is not my viewpoint, he talks about people who are against violence even in the instance of retaliation. I am all for equivalent response when it comes to a conflict, but "punch a Nazi" et al was about preemptively escalating a political discourse to physical violence. That's what my whole disagreement was with. As you can see in my original comment, I effectively said that if it's the case that the violence was initiated by the white supremacist protesters (which the initial evidence appeared to indicate) then counter-protester violence was justified.
- grasshopperpurp 9y ago
  That's fair enough, and I understand that you're trying to be an even, measured person, and I applaud you for that. When dealing with Nazis and white supremacists, though, we have to understand that their very existence is violence. For anyone with any decency within them, there is no middle ground to reach with a white supremacist. Think about it. What would the middle ground look like? OK, you can't lynch or kick out all minorities, but we'll let you have half? A third? It's ridiculous to even consider. The only answer is to snuff them out, and it will likely require a great deal of violence. MLK knew it; Malcolm X knew it; and every black person in America with half a pulse knows it. Remember Ferguson? Remember how the Oath Keepers marched through black neighborhoods with machine guns? Can you imagine if black people marched through white suburbs with machine guns? If you can't, look at why California has strict gun laws - the Black Panthers. Or, why were only a few people arrested in Virginia? And, why were they treated with more decency than people protesting police brutality or the Dakota Pipeline? It's white supremacy in action. You say you're from a communist country, and you may not be aware of America's history with white supremacy, but it runs deep. People who make false equivocations between groups like BLM and the KKK are no better than the white supremacists themselves, and they're the ones that allow this sort of thing to continue - in 2017 FFS. This sums it up well: https://scontent.ftpa1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20800151_1639524302759116_4788528025784732715_n.png?oh=d9d4c2a615ef9c74562249cc4a2f45a1&oe=59F14CC8 https://scontent.ftpa1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20800151_163...
ygaf 9y ago
Law and order bring us the closest to justice. This "negative peace" is just the absence of perfect justice.
- grasshopperpurp 9y ago
  That's an MLK quote. You don't like it?
  - ygaf 9y ago
    Let's just say after the fatiguing year of outrages we've had, I'm tired of everyone's justice.
    - grasshopperpurp 9y ago
      Forgive me if I've misunderstood you, but this seems pretty apathetic.
      - ygaf 9y ago
        It's just the word itself. I've been straying from the substance and rigour of HN to the rabble rousing of FB and twitter.

cyphar 9y ago

All authoritarian, violent actors want you to think that violence (especially of the preemptive variety) is justified for their particular set of ideals. The viewpoint discussed in that MLK quote is not my viewpoint, he talks about people who are against violence even in the instance of retaliation. I am all for equivalent response when it comes to a conflict, but "punch a Nazi" et al was about preemptively escalating a political discourse to physical violence. That's what my whole disagreement was with. As you can see in my original comment, I effectively said that if it's the case that the violence was initiated by the white supremacist protesters (which the initial evidence appeared to indicate) then counter-protester violence was justified.

grasshopperpurp 9y ago
That's fair enough, and I understand that you're trying to be an even, measured person, and I applaud you for that. When dealing with Nazis and white supremacists, though, we have to understand that their very existence is violence. For anyone with any decency within them, there is no middle ground to reach with a white supremacist. Think about it. What would the middle ground look like? OK, you can't lynch or kick out all minorities, but we'll let you have half? A third? It's ridiculous to even consider. The only answer is to snuff them out, and it will likely require a great deal of violence. MLK knew it; Malcolm X knew it; and every black person in America with half a pulse knows it. Remember Ferguson? Remember how the Oath Keepers marched through black neighborhoods with machine guns? Can you imagine if black people marched through white suburbs with machine guns? If you can't, look at why California has strict gun laws - the Black Panthers. Or, why were only a few people arrested in Virginia? And, why were they treated with more decency than people protesting police brutality or the Dakota Pipeline? It's white supremacy in action. You say you're from a communist country, and you may not be aware of America's history with white supremacy, but it runs deep. People who make false equivocations between groups like BLM and the KKK are no better than the white supremacists themselves, and they're the ones that allow this sort of thing to continue - in 2017 FFS. This sums it up well: https://scontent.ftpa1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20800151_1639524302759116_4788528025784732715_n.png?oh=d9d4c2a615ef9c74562249cc4a2f45a1&oe=59F14CC8 https://scontent.ftpa1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20800151_163...

ygaf 9y ago

Law and order bring us the closest to justice. This "negative peace" is just the absence of perfect justice.

grasshopperpurp 9y ago
That's an MLK quote. You don't like it?
- ygaf 9y ago
  Let's just say after the fatiguing year of outrages we've had, I'm tired of everyone's justice.
  - grasshopperpurp 9y ago
    Forgive me if I've misunderstood you, but this seems pretty apathetic.
    - ygaf 9y ago
      It's just the word itself. I've been straying from the substance and rigour of HN to the rabble rousing of FB and twitter.