3 ms·

I find the complacency argument to be flat. The Sawstop technology doesn't prevent injury, you still get nicked by the blade, it just dramatically reduces the s

I find the complacency argument to be flat. The Sawstop technology doesn't prevent injury, you still get nicked by the blade, it just dramatically reduces the severity of injury incurred. Additionally when the mechanism trips the break and blade are spend and must be replaced. So the motivation to be safe around the saw isn't negated, it's just driven by different factors. Instead of motivation coming from the fear of losing a part of your hand, it's coming from fear of getting nicked AND having to replace expensive parts of your saw AND the time loss from having to stop working. Having a case and screen protector on your phone don't magically make it impervious and you don't suddenly starting handling it recklessly. Having seat belts and airbags in your car doesn't suddenly make you open to ramming your car into that asshole driving like a jerk in front of you. So why would no longer fearing losing your hand if you screw up make you more open to touching the spinning blade on your saw?

mikeash 9y ago
Furthermore, making it into a monetary loss might actually help people be more careful. Time and again I see people respond much better to "that will be expensive to fix if you break it" than to "that will maim or kill you." My flying club's annual safety meeting always puts heavy emphasis on the time and money cost of breaking our equipment for this reason. It seems to work well.
- khuey 9y ago
  Everybody has an experience making an expensive mistake that they can relate to. (Living) people don't generally have experiences dying that they can relate to.
neves 9y ago
This is a really important point not made in the article: > I find the complacency argument to be flat. The Sawstop technology doesn't prevent injury, you still get nicked by the blade, it just dramatically reduces the severity of injury incurred. Additionally when the mechanism trips the break and blade are spend and must be replaced.
luckydude 9y ago
You make good points. I think I screwed up by not saying "for me ...." For me, I don't want a tool to be "safe" unless all my tools are safe. Working in my shop there are so many places where something can go wrong. I don't just do woodworking, I've got a metal lathe, I do a ton of mechanic stuff so things like forget to put a jackstand under the tractor and the floorjack gives out, I run chainsaws, a chipper, tractors, an excavator, there are just a zillion ways things can go wrong. So I feel like it is my job to make sure that nothing goes wrong. I'm not a fan of one or two or twenty things that save me, I've got 200 ways where something is going to screw me. Your situation is very likely different. I'm rural, on 15 acres, all of this stuff is to support living here. I can't afford to get lazy or complacent, I'd be dead real quick.
- cptskippy 9y ago
  There's no need to justify yourself. Mindfulness is a learned skill and removing the necessity to practice it can be a bad thing. Just today I was remarking to someone how I felt automatic headlights and other assistive technologies were allowing people to be less mindful and more inconsiderate of their surroundings and other people. I totally get where you're coming from and agree with you to an extent and I don't disabled the safeties on my guns or tools. I personally wouldn't spring for a stopsaw because the price is several orders of magnitude more than I'd spend on a saw however if given one I'd welcome it gladly and find comfort in knowing that I or a family member wouldn't accidentally be losing any limbs to it.
  - luckydude 9y ago
    Oh, man, google maps. Holy crap has that removed skills. And cash registers that make change, we can't do math. On the sawstop, I still feel that having that in my shop doesn't make my shop safe, wouldn't let my kids in there.
    - cptskippy 9y ago
      I wasn't allowed in the shop as a child but I still found my way in there. We had a radial arm saw that I used quite often as a child, I'm really not sure how I survived.

mikeash 9y ago

Furthermore, making it into a monetary loss might actually help people be more careful. Time and again I see people respond much better to "that will be expensive to fix if you break it" than to "that will maim or kill you." My flying club's annual safety meeting always puts heavy emphasis on the time and money cost of breaking our equipment for this reason. It seems to work well.

khuey 9y ago
Everybody has an experience making an expensive mistake that they can relate to. (Living) people don't generally have experiences dying that they can relate to.

neves 9y ago

This is a really important point not made in the article: > I find the complacency argument to be flat. The Sawstop technology doesn't prevent injury, you still get nicked by the blade, it just dramatically reduces the severity of injury incurred. Additionally when the mechanism trips the break and blade are spend and must be replaced.

luckydude 9y ago

You make good points. I think I screwed up by not saying "for me ...." For me, I don't want a tool to be "safe" unless all my tools are safe. Working in my shop there are so many places where something can go wrong. I don't just do woodworking, I've got a metal lathe, I do a ton of mechanic stuff so things like forget to put a jackstand under the tractor and the floorjack gives out, I run chainsaws, a chipper, tractors, an excavator, there are just a zillion ways things can go wrong. So I feel like it is my job to make sure that nothing goes wrong. I'm not a fan of one or two or twenty things that save me, I've got 200 ways where something is going to screw me. Your situation is very likely different. I'm rural, on 15 acres, all of this stuff is to support living here. I can't afford to get lazy or complacent, I'd be dead real quick.

cptskippy 9y ago
There's no need to justify yourself. Mindfulness is a learned skill and removing the necessity to practice it can be a bad thing. Just today I was remarking to someone how I felt automatic headlights and other assistive technologies were allowing people to be less mindful and more inconsiderate of their surroundings and other people. I totally get where you're coming from and agree with you to an extent and I don't disabled the safeties on my guns or tools. I personally wouldn't spring for a stopsaw because the price is several orders of magnitude more than I'd spend on a saw however if given one I'd welcome it gladly and find comfort in knowing that I or a family member wouldn't accidentally be losing any limbs to it.
- luckydude 9y ago
  Oh, man, google maps. Holy crap has that removed skills. And cash registers that make change, we can't do math. On the sawstop, I still feel that having that in my shop doesn't make my shop safe, wouldn't let my kids in there.
  - cptskippy 9y ago
    I wasn't allowed in the shop as a child but I still found my way in there. We had a radial arm saw that I used quite often as a child, I'm really not sure how I survived.