4 ms·

Legalize psychedelic therapies. Specifically iboga. I watched a friend who was suicidal and an addict a couple months ago enter into an iboga treatment and the

by ada1981 9y ago

Legalize psychedelic therapies. Specifically iboga. I watched a friend who was suicidal and an addict a couple months ago enter into an iboga treatment and the guy hasn't had a smoke or drink since... he looks like a million bucks.. is hitting the gym and talking about "feeling his emotions" and is happily in therapy. This is a dude who has neck tats, was routinely getting into bar fights with skin heads in NYC and is a vet who had pretty severe PTSD. Let's legalize treatments that actually work.

trcollinson 9y ago
While I am glad this worked for your friend, or seems to be at the moment, that doesn't actually solve the problem. The problem that this article is pointing out is actually that rehabilitation and treatment centers are money making machines and that some owners of those centers are unscrupulous and unethical at best, and acting completely criminally at worst. By legalizing new treatments you actually cause the problem to get worse, not better, especially if those new treatments lack clinical data and scientific backing. This leaves an open door for desperate people in need to be seduced into treatments that might not help and will cost substantial amounts of money. Many types of treatment do work, and work very well. If someone is in need of treatment, please, do your homework and research and find those people who can really help you.
- _lex 9y ago
  Seriously - what types of treatment actually work for people addicted to drugs? As far as I know, none of them work ( where working is defined as >50% of people who complete the treatment course being able to move on to lead a normal, drug free life). A lot of them do make a ton of noise though, and several basically lower your expectations from the outset (like AA) - so you treat addiction as a chronic disease: something you'll never be cured of, and have to always deal with. The parent poster seemed to be arguing that iboga can cure addiction. If he's right, this is a big deal.
  - ada1981 9y ago
    My general thesis on this is that "addiction" is really an addiction to dopamine which is triggered by various other things (drugs, sex, booze, power, money, shopping, porn, etc). That dopamine release is the nervous systems attempt to sooth itself when in a state of disregulation. A healthy nervous system in a healthy environment (with attuned caregivers and limited traumatic experience) will equipt a person with the neural pathways (and associated beliefs and behaviors) to regulate their nervous system. In compromised development, either through lack of attunement or childhood / early trauma folks don't have the ability to automatically regulate and they are in a constant state of fight / flight. The dopamine helps to deal with this temporarily. Psychedelics, some therapy, and sometimes near death / mystical experiences (moments of clarity) can offer a window of opportunity in which the ego loosens its grip enough for the nervous system to relax and for the subconscious material (traumas) to come to the surface and be released with the accompanying rewiring of the fight / flight response. When one experiences reality from an undefended state it is generally such a pleasurable, rich experience that the desire to use other mechanisms of self-soothing organically fade away and the cognition and behavior reorient to healthier more nourishing alternatives. These experiences and therapy combined with a healthy environment and relationships that support the honest expression of emotion (ie, not co-dependent) can rapidly support healing. The basic idea is that traumas are trapped in the somatic system and that altered states of consciousness combined with the right context can allow for an unfolding and healing of the underlying issues. Depending on the underlying issue and severity of the defense structures folks may find help with various psychedelic substance from MDMA, Iboga, LSD, Mushroom or Ayahuasca. We also have seen great result using Holotropic Breathwork which was developed as a legal alternative to LSD Psychotherapy. This is essentially the same process I used to heal from bipolar, as I began to see bipolar as an "addiction" to states of depression and mania as a protective, adaptive response. It's also the process I now use with my clients and the underlying philosophy that I bring to the communities that support. If anyone is interested, there is a new book out (published anonymously) that documents accounts of a number of people who have been helped by an underground MDMA therapy practice. (Not specific to substance addiction, but includes some accounts.) https://smile.amazon.com/Trust-Surrender-Receive-Release-Trauma/dp/1619617382/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1502907574&sr=8-1&keywords=trust+surrender+receive https://smile.amazon.com/Trust-Surrender-Receive-Release-Tra...
extra88 9y ago
> Clinical studies of ibogaine to treat drug addiction began in the early 1990s, but concerns about cardiotoxicity led to termination of those studies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibogaine#Medical https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibogaine#Medical
- ada1981 9y ago
  Iboga is probably the most intense psychedelic experience. Certainly not a recreational drug. Folks do need to have a healthy heart to safely undergo this treatment and it does involve risk of death. Many people decide the risks are worth the reward and try it. I'm a supporter / member of MAPS.org and we have funded research with Iboga. http://www.maps.org/research/ibogaine-therapy http://www.maps.org/research/ibogaine-therapy
valuearb 9y ago
We'll probably need something other than anecdotal evidence to get started on that.
- ada1981 9y ago
  We have funded some very promising studies, you can find them on maps.org and we already have MDMA in phase 3 clinical trails in partnership with the VA for PTSD.

trcollinson 9y ago

While I am glad this worked for your friend, or seems to be at the moment, that doesn't actually solve the problem. The problem that this article is pointing out is actually that rehabilitation and treatment centers are money making machines and that some owners of those centers are unscrupulous and unethical at best, and acting completely criminally at worst. By legalizing new treatments you actually cause the problem to get worse, not better, especially if those new treatments lack clinical data and scientific backing. This leaves an open door for desperate people in need to be seduced into treatments that might not help and will cost substantial amounts of money. Many types of treatment do work, and work very well. If someone is in need of treatment, please, do your homework and research and find those people who can really help you.

_lex 9y ago
Seriously - what types of treatment actually work for people addicted to drugs? As far as I know, none of them work ( where working is defined as >50% of people who complete the treatment course being able to move on to lead a normal, drug free life). A lot of them do make a ton of noise though, and several basically lower your expectations from the outset (like AA) - so you treat addiction as a chronic disease: something you'll never be cured of, and have to always deal with. The parent poster seemed to be arguing that iboga can cure addiction. If he's right, this is a big deal.
- ada1981 9y ago
  My general thesis on this is that "addiction" is really an addiction to dopamine which is triggered by various other things (drugs, sex, booze, power, money, shopping, porn, etc). That dopamine release is the nervous systems attempt to sooth itself when in a state of disregulation. A healthy nervous system in a healthy environment (with attuned caregivers and limited traumatic experience) will equipt a person with the neural pathways (and associated beliefs and behaviors) to regulate their nervous system. In compromised development, either through lack of attunement or childhood / early trauma folks don't have the ability to automatically regulate and they are in a constant state of fight / flight. The dopamine helps to deal with this temporarily. Psychedelics, some therapy, and sometimes near death / mystical experiences (moments of clarity) can offer a window of opportunity in which the ego loosens its grip enough for the nervous system to relax and for the subconscious material (traumas) to come to the surface and be released with the accompanying rewiring of the fight / flight response. When one experiences reality from an undefended state it is generally such a pleasurable, rich experience that the desire to use other mechanisms of self-soothing organically fade away and the cognition and behavior reorient to healthier more nourishing alternatives. These experiences and therapy combined with a healthy environment and relationships that support the honest expression of emotion (ie, not co-dependent) can rapidly support healing. The basic idea is that traumas are trapped in the somatic system and that altered states of consciousness combined with the right context can allow for an unfolding and healing of the underlying issues. Depending on the underlying issue and severity of the defense structures folks may find help with various psychedelic substance from MDMA, Iboga, LSD, Mushroom or Ayahuasca. We also have seen great result using Holotropic Breathwork which was developed as a legal alternative to LSD Psychotherapy. This is essentially the same process I used to heal from bipolar, as I began to see bipolar as an "addiction" to states of depression and mania as a protective, adaptive response. It's also the process I now use with my clients and the underlying philosophy that I bring to the communities that support. If anyone is interested, there is a new book out (published anonymously) that documents accounts of a number of people who have been helped by an underground MDMA therapy practice. (Not specific to substance addiction, but includes some accounts.) https://smile.amazon.com/Trust-Surrender-Receive-Release-Trauma/dp/1619617382/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1502907574&sr=8-1&keywords=trust+surrender+receive https://smile.amazon.com/Trust-Surrender-Receive-Release-Tra...

extra88 9y ago

> Clinical studies of ibogaine to treat drug addiction began in the early 1990s, but concerns about cardiotoxicity led to termination of those studies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibogaine#Medical https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibogaine#Medical

ada1981 9y ago
Iboga is probably the most intense psychedelic experience. Certainly not a recreational drug. Folks do need to have a healthy heart to safely undergo this treatment and it does involve risk of death. Many people decide the risks are worth the reward and try it. I'm a supporter / member of MAPS.org and we have funded research with Iboga. http://www.maps.org/research/ibogaine-therapy http://www.maps.org/research/ibogaine-therapy

valuearb 9y ago

We'll probably need something other than anecdotal evidence to get started on that.

ada1981 9y ago
We have funded some very promising studies, you can find them on maps.org and we already have MDMA in phase 3 clinical trails in partnership with the VA for PTSD.