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What he means is all this is a far cry from an actual Nazi movement. I don't think you really appreciate what the NSDAP was. The NSDAP was build on a very stron

by eeks 9y ago

What he means is all this is a far cry from an actual Nazi movement. I don't think you really appreciate what the NSDAP was. The NSDAP was build on a very strong military base (disenchanted veterans) and was using very strict military rules. They were not fat morons parading with tiki torches, but trained assassins organized in armed militia used to impose their order through authority and fear. Labeling a bunch of morons Nazi because they are white, they chant and they have a Swastika flag is a moral fallacy, an insult to all the people that suffered actual Nazism, and a gross oversimplification.

willstrafach 9y ago
When people wave Nazi flags, chant Nazi slogans, perform Nazi salutes, etc. it is not unreasonable to call them Nazis.
- eeks 9y ago
  It's not unreasonable. The point I am trying to make (and at which I am obviously failing) is that it's not because Nazis carry one kind of flag, perform one kind of salute and chant one kind of chant, that people doing the same things are Nazis. Historically, all this folklore was a mean to an end. But the end came first. There was a plan to overthrow the government, a failed coup d'état, an relatable ideology, a strong, trained and motivated leadership, a propaganda, active enrollments and daily militia marching. In two words, actual politics. Given their complete lack of all these, it seems to me very hasty and politically motivated to call these morons Nazis. Instead of dealing with these people for what there are - lunatics, it creates a fear for something that simply does not exists.
  - microwavecamera 9y ago
    Just because they're not currently very good at what they do doesn't preclude them from being one, especially when many of these groups self identify as neo-Nazis. It's the same intent with the same goal. The Nazi's in Germany in the early 1930's were pretty much a bunch of screw-ups when they started. Many Germans at the time regarded them as fringe "lunatics", but we all know how that turned out.
DanBC 9y ago
> but trained assassins organized in armed militia Nothing like these fucks then? https://twitter.com/SheldonKJordan/status/897795096325836804 https://twitter.com/SheldonKJordan/status/897795096325836804
- eeks 9y ago
  Right. Nothing like these fucks. What you are showing me are boy-scouts. Cosplay enthusiasts. I am talking about this: http://bit.ly/2fKTuib http://bit.ly/2fKTuib. And this: http://bit.ly/2i6UZrK http://bit.ly/2i6UZrK. And this: http://bit.ly/2fLS46Y http://bit.ly/2fLS46Y. One of us is being purposely dense. I am probably biased but I don't think it's me. Get real. EDIT This is not a qualitative comparison especially since my point is that both instances are not comparable.
  - willstrafach 9y ago
    "Not as bad as 1930s Nazis" does not seem like a sensible argument to keep pushing.
dragonwriter 9y ago
When people are being called Nazis, it's about ideology, not skill set. Though the modern white supremacist movement does also include a fair number of disenchanted military veterans [0], who are often influential in their organized groups and militias (and, the NSDAP itself included and was supported by a lot of other disaffected citizens that weren't “trained assassins”.) So, even aside from being dubiously relevant, the distinction you try to paint is at best overblown. [0] e.g., http://taskandpurpose.com/nathan-damigo-charlottesville-marine/amp/ http://taskandpurpose.com/nathan-damigo-charlottesville-mari...

by eeks 9y ago

willstrafach 9y ago

When people wave Nazi flags, chant Nazi slogans, perform Nazi salutes, etc. it is not unreasonable to call them Nazis.

eeks 9y ago
It's not unreasonable. The point I am trying to make (and at which I am obviously failing) is that it's not because Nazis carry one kind of flag, perform one kind of salute and chant one kind of chant, that people doing the same things are Nazis. Historically, all this folklore was a mean to an end. But the end came first. There was a plan to overthrow the government, a failed coup d'état, an relatable ideology, a strong, trained and motivated leadership, a propaganda, active enrollments and daily militia marching. In two words, actual politics. Given their complete lack of all these, it seems to me very hasty and politically motivated to call these morons Nazis. Instead of dealing with these people for what there are - lunatics, it creates a fear for something that simply does not exists.
- microwavecamera 9y ago
  Just because they're not currently very good at what they do doesn't preclude them from being one, especially when many of these groups self identify as neo-Nazis. It's the same intent with the same goal. The Nazi's in Germany in the early 1930's were pretty much a bunch of screw-ups when they started. Many Germans at the time regarded them as fringe "lunatics", but we all know how that turned out.

DanBC 9y ago

> but trained assassins organized in armed militia Nothing like these fucks then? https://twitter.com/SheldonKJordan/status/897795096325836804 https://twitter.com/SheldonKJordan/status/897795096325836804

eeks 9y ago
Right. Nothing like these fucks. What you are showing me are boy-scouts. Cosplay enthusiasts. I am talking about this: http://bit.ly/2fKTuib http://bit.ly/2fKTuib. And this: http://bit.ly/2i6UZrK http://bit.ly/2i6UZrK. And this: http://bit.ly/2fLS46Y http://bit.ly/2fLS46Y. One of us is being purposely dense. I am probably biased but I don't think it's me. Get real. EDIT This is not a qualitative comparison especially since my point is that both instances are not comparable.
- willstrafach 9y ago
  "Not as bad as 1930s Nazis" does not seem like a sensible argument to keep pushing.

dragonwriter 9y ago

When people are being called Nazis, it's about ideology, not skill set. Though the modern white supremacist movement does also include a fair number of disenchanted military veterans [0], who are often influential in their organized groups and militias (and, the NSDAP itself included and was supported by a lot of other disaffected citizens that weren't “trained assassins”.) So, even aside from being dubiously relevant, the distinction you try to paint is at best overblown. [0] e.g., http://taskandpurpose.com/nathan-damigo-charlottesville-marine/amp/ http://taskandpurpose.com/nathan-damigo-charlottesville-mari...