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a. are we really going to harm poor precious little Henry by making him rote learn grammar instead of expressing the minimal amount of individuality he might ha

a. are we really going to harm poor precious little Henry by making him rote learn grammar instead of expressing the minimal amount of individuality he might have by school age (we don't read books written by children because they don't have much interesting to say) b. by not giving children a proper grasp of language we are actually limiting their ability to express themselves, for God's sake

laumars 9y ago
I think it's dangerous to assume that kids neither have individually nor anything interesting to say. Just the other day my 3 year old was explaining to me how cars, tablet PCs and people all need different types of energy to function. I found that conversation to be far more interesting than half the discussions I have with peers of my own age.
- Boothroid 9y ago
  OK, so what about point b - by prioritising children expressing their individuality we are actually limiting their ability to express themselves with eloquence?
  - laumars 9y ago
    I didn't really want to get into an argument about education but since you asked: honestly, I see no evidence to support your point. My wife is a primary school teacher and most of my extended family currently work or have worked in schools. Not one person I've spoken to has ever talked about kids being treated even remotely in the fashion you describe. I am sure you could find some specific examples which support your theory but my experience would suggest those examples are the exception rather than the norm. You could make the argument that it is easier for kids to express their individuality than it ever has been but I think the credit for that belongs to the Internet and changing social attitudes rather than schooling (though maybe schools have become more intolerant to bullying than when I was young? That would also certainly help).
    - mkbnnh 9y ago
      Always a joy to watch some random idiot on the internet destroyed by someone who knows what they're talking about. Cheers! Edit: oh, he's actually 18. Come back round here in 10 years when you've had kids of your own (not that you ever will if you keep frequenting these parts. Go outside)
      - Boothroid 9y ago
        Oh yes I'm so destroyed. And your account is less than one day old.
    - Boothroid 9y ago
      Perhaps it doesn't fit your political viewpoint. Teaching is notoriously left wing. I know teachers myself, and they have told me that education has changed in the way I have described. I'll just leave thus here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2815147/Why-trendy-teaching-inefficient-harmful-Report-says-popular-classroom-techniques-not-supported-research.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2815147/Why-trendy-t...
      - laumars 9y ago
        Teaching isn't "notoriously left wing". Half the popular schools out there are religious schools and place a stronger bias on religious dogma than any left wing educator would be comfortable with. But it is pretty clear your stance on this is pretty far right so anything is going to seem too left wing for your liking. Case in point: you read the Daily Mail and Christian publications and take them at face value. If the issues were are prevalent as you pretend then you wouldn't be scraping the barrel with 5 year old reports in papers that have a terrible reputation for inaccuracies. Anyhow, I said before that I didn't really want to get drawn into a debate about education - I have to endure enough ranting about it from my wife each night - so this is the last I'm going to say on the subject.
  - DanBC 9y ago
    > by prioritising children expressing their individuality It doesn't happen. You're wrong. You're being very firm with your assertions, but they're based on something that doesn't happen. Have a look at common core standards for English. Most of them have nothing to do with "expressing their individuality", but about introducing a topic, making an argument, and supporting it with evidence.

laumars 9y ago

I think it's dangerous to assume that kids neither have individually nor anything interesting to say. Just the other day my 3 year old was explaining to me how cars, tablet PCs and people all need different types of energy to function. I found that conversation to be far more interesting than half the discussions I have with peers of my own age.

Boothroid 9y ago
OK, so what about point b - by prioritising children expressing their individuality we are actually limiting their ability to express themselves with eloquence?
- laumars 9y ago
  I didn't really want to get into an argument about education but since you asked: honestly, I see no evidence to support your point. My wife is a primary school teacher and most of my extended family currently work or have worked in schools. Not one person I've spoken to has ever talked about kids being treated even remotely in the fashion you describe. I am sure you could find some specific examples which support your theory but my experience would suggest those examples are the exception rather than the norm. You could make the argument that it is easier for kids to express their individuality than it ever has been but I think the credit for that belongs to the Internet and changing social attitudes rather than schooling (though maybe schools have become more intolerant to bullying than when I was young? That would also certainly help).
  - mkbnnh 9y ago
    Always a joy to watch some random idiot on the internet destroyed by someone who knows what they're talking about. Cheers! Edit: oh, he's actually 18. Come back round here in 10 years when you've had kids of your own (not that you ever will if you keep frequenting these parts. Go outside)
    - Boothroid 9y ago
      Oh yes I'm so destroyed. And your account is less than one day old.
  - Boothroid 9y ago
    Perhaps it doesn't fit your political viewpoint. Teaching is notoriously left wing. I know teachers myself, and they have told me that education has changed in the way I have described. I'll just leave thus here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2815147/Why-trendy-teaching-inefficient-harmful-Report-says-popular-classroom-techniques-not-supported-research.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2815147/Why-trendy-t...
    - laumars 9y ago
      Teaching isn't "notoriously left wing". Half the popular schools out there are religious schools and place a stronger bias on religious dogma than any left wing educator would be comfortable with. But it is pretty clear your stance on this is pretty far right so anything is going to seem too left wing for your liking. Case in point: you read the Daily Mail and Christian publications and take them at face value. If the issues were are prevalent as you pretend then you wouldn't be scraping the barrel with 5 year old reports in papers that have a terrible reputation for inaccuracies. Anyhow, I said before that I didn't really want to get drawn into a debate about education - I have to endure enough ranting about it from my wife each night - so this is the last I'm going to say on the subject.
- DanBC 9y ago
  > by prioritising children expressing their individuality It doesn't happen. You're wrong. You're being very firm with your assertions, but they're based on something that doesn't happen. Have a look at common core standards for English. Most of them have nothing to do with "expressing their individuality", but about introducing a topic, making an argument, and supporting it with evidence.