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The private school system in Australia saves the government money. Per student funding in the private system is lower than per student funding in the public sys

by sien 9y ago

The private school system in Australia saves the government money. Per student funding in the private system is lower than per student funding in the public system. This money is then available to spend more on government schools. It also keeps the government system honest because people can and do leave schools that don't work such as many of those in poor areas in the outer suburbs of the big cities and regional areas. If there were no private system the only way to get into better schools would be to own very expensive houses. Meanwhile, the selective schools show that the government can provide a good education for highly able students as well. In NSW ~18 of the top 20 high schools are government schools. Personally I think most people are unwise to send their kids to expensive private schools and they would help their kids much more if they put the money toward investments. But they are free to waste, in my mind, their money to reduce the cost to the tax payer of education.

Paul-ish 9y ago
> The private school system in Australia saves the government money. Per student funding in the private system is lower than per student funding in the public system. This money is then available to spend more on government schools. Isn't this selection bias again? More difficult (expensive) students may get shunted into the public system.
- sien 9y ago
  A number of private schools roughly kick out people in the bottom 10-20% of results. They aren't necessarily that more expensive to teach, the private schools just don't want them. The really expensive kids (say 20K+ per year) are those that are seriously disabled and they almost all go into the government system. But, if the government only has to pay ~1/3 of the cost of about 1/3 of students who are in the private system there is more money available for them.
  - stevenwoo 9y ago
    There is a weird situation in Texas in the USA. The state is limiting the amount of funding for each local district to 8.5 percent for special education with the end result that families end up going to private schools to get special education. The one family in this school ended up paying 50,000 per year for private school for two kids with a readi ng disability. http://www.houstonchronicle.com/denied/7/ http://www.houstonchronicle.com/denied/7/
glangdale 9y ago
This may be true that the private system as a whole saves the government money. However, I'm not sure that the last dollar of subsidies spent on the private system saves the government any money at all - i.e. would someone switch to a public school if that dollar was taken away, or would the private schools just move the cost to the consumer who would bear it, or perhaps they might cut back on the indoor shooting range or second Olympic pool (in the case that the dollar is going to an elite private school)? The argument about that last dollar obviously extends backward quite a way before becoming hugely disruptive or that big a deal. Obviously cutting all subsidies to the private system overnight would be an enormous disruption, but it's far from clear to me that the policy of subsidizing private schools at the current level saves the government any money at all. As for keeping the government system honest - I think this works both ways. I think having people exercising "feet" rather than "voice" harms the public system by taking out people from participation. The argument is similar about selective public schools (I went to one). I see a lot of flaws in the public system too - tons! - and any strong movement back towards public education in Australia would have to be accompanied by some major changes in how they are run (IMO way too much for the convenience of mediocre teachers and even-more-mediocre bureaucrats).
- sien 9y ago
  That's almost certainly true about the marginal value of the last bit of the subsidy and the crazy games around the formula for school funding. A simple, flat formula might be better. Having had friends who were in bad schools but who had parents who did care it's not clear that the public school system does listen much to people when they have an almost captive audience. Having had a parent and friends who are teachers in the public school system doesn't inspire much faith that where they are broken they are easy to improve either. The current system with all it's flaws but with distributed control and choice that saves the government money has some advantages.
alasdair_ 9y ago
>Per student funding in the private system is lower than per student funding in the public system. If you dump all of the special needs kids and the kids that require a ton of effort to learn into a single group then OF COURSE these kids will be more expensive to teach per student than the most motivated students who can afford outside tutors etc. The whole premise of the article is that selection bias is a big deal.

by sien 9y ago

Paul-ish 9y ago

> The private school system in Australia saves the government money. Per student funding in the private system is lower than per student funding in the public system. This money is then available to spend more on government schools. Isn't this selection bias again? More difficult (expensive) students may get shunted into the public system.

sien 9y ago
A number of private schools roughly kick out people in the bottom 10-20% of results. They aren't necessarily that more expensive to teach, the private schools just don't want them. The really expensive kids (say 20K+ per year) are those that are seriously disabled and they almost all go into the government system. But, if the government only has to pay ~1/3 of the cost of about 1/3 of students who are in the private system there is more money available for them.
- stevenwoo 9y ago
  There is a weird situation in Texas in the USA. The state is limiting the amount of funding for each local district to 8.5 percent for special education with the end result that families end up going to private schools to get special education. The one family in this school ended up paying 50,000 per year for private school for two kids with a readi ng disability. http://www.houstonchronicle.com/denied/7/ http://www.houstonchronicle.com/denied/7/

glangdale 9y ago

This may be true that the private system as a whole saves the government money. However, I'm not sure that the last dollar of subsidies spent on the private system saves the government any money at all - i.e. would someone switch to a public school if that dollar was taken away, or would the private schools just move the cost to the consumer who would bear it, or perhaps they might cut back on the indoor shooting range or second Olympic pool (in the case that the dollar is going to an elite private school)? The argument about that last dollar obviously extends backward quite a way before becoming hugely disruptive or that big a deal. Obviously cutting all subsidies to the private system overnight would be an enormous disruption, but it's far from clear to me that the policy of subsidizing private schools at the current level saves the government any money at all. As for keeping the government system honest - I think this works both ways. I think having people exercising "feet" rather than "voice" harms the public system by taking out people from participation. The argument is similar about selective public schools (I went to one). I see a lot of flaws in the public system too - tons! - and any strong movement back towards public education in Australia would have to be accompanied by some major changes in how they are run (IMO way too much for the convenience of mediocre teachers and even-more-mediocre bureaucrats).

sien 9y ago
That's almost certainly true about the marginal value of the last bit of the subsidy and the crazy games around the formula for school funding. A simple, flat formula might be better. Having had friends who were in bad schools but who had parents who did care it's not clear that the public school system does listen much to people when they have an almost captive audience. Having had a parent and friends who are teachers in the public school system doesn't inspire much faith that where they are broken they are easy to improve either. The current system with all it's flaws but with distributed control and choice that saves the government money has some advantages.

alasdair_ 9y ago

>Per student funding in the private system is lower than per student funding in the public system. If you dump all of the special needs kids and the kids that require a ton of effort to learn into a single group then OF COURSE these kids will be more expensive to teach per student than the most motivated students who can afford outside tutors etc. The whole premise of the article is that selection bias is a big deal.