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Sorry, you would probably need to read through the parent article (from the comment) for the broader context ...in which Scott makes the claim in the form of a

Sorry, you would probably need to read through the parent article (from the comment) for the broader context ...in which Scott makes the claim in the form of a rebuttal to another article by Grant, to which Grant replied (who also did not find biologically driven human female preference for "people" vs "things." convincing), and I gave you the link to Scott's reply to that!

AlexCoventry 9y ago
Can you please recapitulate Scott's argument, in a few words, and the scientific evidence it's based on?
- kansface 9y ago
  Alright: A forward: Grant is a professor of Economics at Wharton, and Scott is a Psychiatrist and author of a popular blog - both agree that biological differences in ability are small (for the field of CS at large). Scott contends: > It’s a very common and well-replicated finding that the more progressive and gender-equal a country, the larger gender differences in personality ... become (aggressiveness, horniness, language abilities, mechanical abilities, visuospatial skills, mechanical ability, tendermindness, assertiveness, comfort with body, various physical abilities ...) Concomitantly, those countries display the worst gender imbalance in CS graduates while the countries with poor GDI do well on their ratios! Outright discrimination does not look plausible. Maybe its just socialization? Scott looks backwards in time. Only 20% of high school students who take AP CS are women... which is about the number of US CS graduates. You can trace roughly equal numbers (in terms of interest) back to middle school and even earlier... and even to Rhesus monkeys apparently! However, > One subgroup of women does not display these gender differences at any age. These are women with congenital adrenal hyperplasia, a condition that gives them a more typically-male hormone balance Scott then applies the theory of preferences (objects versus systems) to other professions, such as medicene, where roughly equal numbers of women and men exist, but they dominate different specialties (women in Obstetrics, Pediatrics, Physciatry, Family Medicene, and men in Surgery, Radiology, etc). Women make up ~40% of US math grads, but they mostly go on to teach math! He contends women have left CS since the 70s out of personal preference, as it was one of only a few socially acceptable jobs for women at the time. Instead, they now choose to be a doctor or lawyer, and this OK. edit: I also forgot to mention that he asks if discrimination/socialization are the chief culprit, why do they only affect CS and not other high status/high paying jobs (like being a doctor) which previously exhibited the same gender ratio.
  - AlexCoventry 9y ago
    Thank you. As a psychiatrist, Scott ought to know better than to cite these things as gospel... "the more progressive and gender-equal a country, the larger gender differences in personality ... become" I suggest you read Lippa's papers and survey paper and draw your own conclusions. These inferences are drawn from very limited observations, and generalizing so far from the observational context is totally unconvincing. What do Rhesus monkeys have to do with CS graduates? The CAH studies I've been able to unearth are very underpowered. Maybe there are better ones, though. Also, CAH affects genitalia, which affects gender identity, which affects socialization. Not at all surprising that some CAH females would exhibit masculine characteristics, through socialization alone. > why do they only affect CS and not other high status/high paying jobs (like being a doctor) Outside SV and similar areas, CS has nowhere near the same status as medicine. How many TV shows can you list about software developers? How many about doctors?

AlexCoventry 9y ago

Can you please recapitulate Scott's argument, in a few words, and the scientific evidence it's based on?

kansface 9y ago
Alright: A forward: Grant is a professor of Economics at Wharton, and Scott is a Psychiatrist and author of a popular blog - both agree that biological differences in ability are small (for the field of CS at large). Scott contends: > It’s a very common and well-replicated finding that the more progressive and gender-equal a country, the larger gender differences in personality ... become (aggressiveness, horniness, language abilities, mechanical abilities, visuospatial skills, mechanical ability, tendermindness, assertiveness, comfort with body, various physical abilities ...) Concomitantly, those countries display the worst gender imbalance in CS graduates while the countries with poor GDI do well on their ratios! Outright discrimination does not look plausible. Maybe its just socialization? Scott looks backwards in time. Only 20% of high school students who take AP CS are women... which is about the number of US CS graduates. You can trace roughly equal numbers (in terms of interest) back to middle school and even earlier... and even to Rhesus monkeys apparently! However, > One subgroup of women does not display these gender differences at any age. These are women with congenital adrenal hyperplasia, a condition that gives them a more typically-male hormone balance Scott then applies the theory of preferences (objects versus systems) to other professions, such as medicene, where roughly equal numbers of women and men exist, but they dominate different specialties (women in Obstetrics, Pediatrics, Physciatry, Family Medicene, and men in Surgery, Radiology, etc). Women make up ~40% of US math grads, but they mostly go on to teach math! He contends women have left CS since the 70s out of personal preference, as it was one of only a few socially acceptable jobs for women at the time. Instead, they now choose to be a doctor or lawyer, and this OK. edit: I also forgot to mention that he asks if discrimination/socialization are the chief culprit, why do they only affect CS and not other high status/high paying jobs (like being a doctor) which previously exhibited the same gender ratio.
- AlexCoventry 9y ago
  Thank you. As a psychiatrist, Scott ought to know better than to cite these things as gospel... "the more progressive and gender-equal a country, the larger gender differences in personality ... become" I suggest you read Lippa's papers and survey paper and draw your own conclusions. These inferences are drawn from very limited observations, and generalizing so far from the observational context is totally unconvincing. What do Rhesus monkeys have to do with CS graduates? The CAH studies I've been able to unearth are very underpowered. Maybe there are better ones, though. Also, CAH affects genitalia, which affects gender identity, which affects socialization. Not at all surprising that some CAH females would exhibit masculine characteristics, through socialization alone. > why do they only affect CS and not other high status/high paying jobs (like being a doctor) Outside SV and similar areas, CS has nowhere near the same status as medicine. How many TV shows can you list about software developers? How many about doctors?