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Visit a library in a low-income area (where people need them the most) and see the kinds of computers people use to hunt for jobs, do their homework, etc. I've

Visit a library in a low-income area (where people need them the most) and see the kinds of computers people use to hunt for jobs, do their homework, etc. I've been to a library that was running windows 2000 on TWO ancient Dells with with CRT monitors in 2015. And the two computers they had were being used by adults and students. There is so much to be gained from improving libraries.

arkitaip 9y ago
The libraries in my city offer legal advice, business advice and much more beyond storing books. Heck, the majority of books are put in storage in order to free up physical space for doing homework, computers, study rooms, etc.
Chardok 9y ago
I completely agree. Where I lived at in Houston, trying to find a place to sit and study quietly was near impossible, which is something I certainly took for granted. Libraries provide so much public good: giving the public internet access, allowing people to read classics and better themselves for free, and giving some quiet space for those wanting to study (and not have to pay for a $5 coffee).
- goialoq 9y ago
  not paying for a $5 coffee hurts the official GDP metrics. Reading a book in a library contributes $0 to official GDP.
  - peatmoss 9y ago
    Directly speaking, that's right. Indirectly, the latter statement is, of course, false in that libraries provide the means for anyone in society to raise their station and thus contribute more to GDP. But I think you're making a good point that others are missing: The most valuable things in society are often things that aren't easily measured by straightforward means.
stillsut 9y ago
Let me give you a hypothetical company IT department: while you are allowed to work there with any education background, only an MBA can be a manager. How do you think they would perform at IT tasks? Who runs libraries? People with Masters in Library Science. I expect severe budget and certification crises would come to any library that won't put a certified librarian in a head position. Or, I'm a working class guy and it's Sunday, my traditional off from work, can I go to the library? No, it is closed because there needs to be Master Librarian on duty and they've negotiated a contract to never have to work Sunday. Now the facility sits there unused 14% of the time, during the most likely time it would be used.
- soperj 9y ago
  Libraries in Canada have the same stipulations, but are actually funded and are open all the time. Our downtown library is open 9am-9pm every day of the year.
  - rubatuga 9y ago
    That's a severe overgeneralization and I can tell you that is not the case.
    - Sumaso 9y ago
      Please do. Where is that not the case.
  - surement 9y ago
    https://www.vpl.ca/hours-locations https://www.vpl.ca/hours-locations
  - jgmjgm 9y ago
    I live in Canada in a mid-sized city and my library is closed on Sundays. Just as a poster above, it appears to be the case that the librarians negotiated a great deal for themselves. (Closed on Sundays during the summer, open on Sundays during the winter.) However, it is a great library. No arguments there. It's a pain that its closed on Sundays just when kids want to use it most.
conductr 9y ago
This makes me think a recycle/reuse program should exist. "Our" old hardware is newer/better than what they have. I know this program probably does exists but I usually assume they are just breaking my device apart and pulling out gold/metals. If I knew the library needed a gently used device, I'd have no problem giving them my old stuff.
- goialoq 9y ago
  Thanks to the march of progress, it's cheaper to deliver new tablets and keyboards than to wrangle ad-hoc used hardware.
- KGIII 9y ago
  The best thing you can do is ask your librarian. Libraries are often poorly funded, very much so in rural areas. They are often partially funded with donations. Somebody was willing to step up and rehab a local library. Had they not done so, it would have been forced to close. It is staffed entirely by volunteers. The town can barely afford to budget the heat. Fortunately, the same person now donates regularly and there's no risk of immediate closure. They will have also left a small trust for the library when they pass away.
  - WalterBright 9y ago
    Around here, the library buildings are new, large, modern, and spacious. Those buildings were expensive to construct. They lack books, though. The shelves are low, widely spaced, and don't occupy much of the floor space. http://www.buildingwork.design/projects/kenmore-library/ http://www.buildingwork.design/projects/kenmore-library/ I've long since given up even looking for books there. I just go buy them. Contrast this with Half Price Books: http://www.waymarking.com/gallery/image.aspx?f=1&guid=ae61a8f9-45e4-4002-a100-fe2b7437b04f http://www.waymarking.com/gallery/image.aspx?f=1&guid=ae61a8... It's crammed with books. (The picture barely does that justice.)
    - KGIII 9y ago
      I still have a lovely, fairly local, shop. It is called Twice Sold Tales. It's a lovely place. I miss bookstores.
randyrand 9y ago
> where people need them the most On the contrary, even the poor have their own computers and smartphones these days and these libraries don't see much sense in upgrading their rarely used computers.
- chickenfries 9y ago
  If you're poor, you might have a limited data plan. In which case, you probably make use of public WiFi all the time to reduce your usage of your limited data plan, which should be reserved for when you need it on the side of the road or when you're running late to a job interview. Using an old android device to browse the internet is browsing as a second-class citizen. When I job hunt, I open many documents, hundreds of tabs, visit hundreds of websites... all of this would be greatly hindered by a mobile device. Have you been to a low income library where people are not using the computers? My previous neighborhood's library computers were being used almost all the time when I went there. > even the poor have their own computers and smartphones these days I'm curious what you've read that informs this opinion. The digital divide still exists, especially in rural areas but in general across socioeconomic class. https://www.ntia.doc.gov/blog/2016/state-urbanrural-digital-divide https://www.ntia.doc.gov/blog/2016/state-urbanrural-digital-...
lnreddy 9y ago
Physical libraries seem so inefficient. Can't the same thing be accomplished at a fraction of the cost by distributing laptops with subscriptions to KhanAcademy etc ?
- johnjhayes 9y ago
  Consider extreme rural areas. I've lived most of my life in rural Alabama and libraries provide an essential resource for many. Giving these people a laptop and a subscription doesn't help much if they don't have a decent internet connection (or one at all).
  - ue_ 9y ago
    Perhaps the internet connection could be funded in a similar way to libraries, then.
- chickenfries 9y ago
  There is still value in WiFi and a quiet place to work, especially if you're not wealthy and you don't have an office set up in your home, or don't have good quality internet, or home internet at all.

arkitaip 9y ago

The libraries in my city offer legal advice, business advice and much more beyond storing books. Heck, the majority of books are put in storage in order to free up physical space for doing homework, computers, study rooms, etc.

Chardok 9y ago

I completely agree. Where I lived at in Houston, trying to find a place to sit and study quietly was near impossible, which is something I certainly took for granted. Libraries provide so much public good: giving the public internet access, allowing people to read classics and better themselves for free, and giving some quiet space for those wanting to study (and not have to pay for a $5 coffee).

goialoq 9y ago
not paying for a $5 coffee hurts the official GDP metrics. Reading a book in a library contributes $0 to official GDP.
- peatmoss 9y ago
  Directly speaking, that's right. Indirectly, the latter statement is, of course, false in that libraries provide the means for anyone in society to raise their station and thus contribute more to GDP. But I think you're making a good point that others are missing: The most valuable things in society are often things that aren't easily measured by straightforward means.

stillsut 9y ago

Let me give you a hypothetical company IT department: while you are allowed to work there with any education background, only an MBA can be a manager. How do you think they would perform at IT tasks? Who runs libraries? People with Masters in Library Science. I expect severe budget and certification crises would come to any library that won't put a certified librarian in a head position. Or, I'm a working class guy and it's Sunday, my traditional off from work, can I go to the library? No, it is closed because there needs to be Master Librarian on duty and they've negotiated a contract to never have to work Sunday. Now the facility sits there unused 14% of the time, during the most likely time it would be used.

soperj 9y ago
Libraries in Canada have the same stipulations, but are actually funded and are open all the time. Our downtown library is open 9am-9pm every day of the year.
- rubatuga 9y ago
  That's a severe overgeneralization and I can tell you that is not the case.
  - Sumaso 9y ago
    Please do. Where is that not the case.
- surement 9y ago
  https://www.vpl.ca/hours-locations https://www.vpl.ca/hours-locations
- jgmjgm 9y ago
  I live in Canada in a mid-sized city and my library is closed on Sundays. Just as a poster above, it appears to be the case that the librarians negotiated a great deal for themselves. (Closed on Sundays during the summer, open on Sundays during the winter.) However, it is a great library. No arguments there. It's a pain that its closed on Sundays just when kids want to use it most.

conductr 9y ago

This makes me think a recycle/reuse program should exist. "Our" old hardware is newer/better than what they have. I know this program probably does exists but I usually assume they are just breaking my device apart and pulling out gold/metals. If I knew the library needed a gently used device, I'd have no problem giving them my old stuff.

goialoq 9y ago
Thanks to the march of progress, it's cheaper to deliver new tablets and keyboards than to wrangle ad-hoc used hardware.
KGIII 9y ago
The best thing you can do is ask your librarian. Libraries are often poorly funded, very much so in rural areas. They are often partially funded with donations. Somebody was willing to step up and rehab a local library. Had they not done so, it would have been forced to close. It is staffed entirely by volunteers. The town can barely afford to budget the heat. Fortunately, the same person now donates regularly and there's no risk of immediate closure. They will have also left a small trust for the library when they pass away.
- WalterBright 9y ago
  Around here, the library buildings are new, large, modern, and spacious. Those buildings were expensive to construct. They lack books, though. The shelves are low, widely spaced, and don't occupy much of the floor space. http://www.buildingwork.design/projects/kenmore-library/ http://www.buildingwork.design/projects/kenmore-library/ I've long since given up even looking for books there. I just go buy them. Contrast this with Half Price Books: http://www.waymarking.com/gallery/image.aspx?f=1&guid=ae61a8f9-45e4-4002-a100-fe2b7437b04f http://www.waymarking.com/gallery/image.aspx?f=1&guid=ae61a8... It's crammed with books. (The picture barely does that justice.)
  - KGIII 9y ago
    I still have a lovely, fairly local, shop. It is called Twice Sold Tales. It's a lovely place. I miss bookstores.

randyrand 9y ago

> where people need them the most On the contrary, even the poor have their own computers and smartphones these days and these libraries don't see much sense in upgrading their rarely used computers.

chickenfries 9y ago
If you're poor, you might have a limited data plan. In which case, you probably make use of public WiFi all the time to reduce your usage of your limited data plan, which should be reserved for when you need it on the side of the road or when you're running late to a job interview. Using an old android device to browse the internet is browsing as a second-class citizen. When I job hunt, I open many documents, hundreds of tabs, visit hundreds of websites... all of this would be greatly hindered by a mobile device. Have you been to a low income library where people are not using the computers? My previous neighborhood's library computers were being used almost all the time when I went there. > even the poor have their own computers and smartphones these days I'm curious what you've read that informs this opinion. The digital divide still exists, especially in rural areas but in general across socioeconomic class. https://www.ntia.doc.gov/blog/2016/state-urbanrural-digital-divide https://www.ntia.doc.gov/blog/2016/state-urbanrural-digital-...

lnreddy 9y ago

Physical libraries seem so inefficient. Can't the same thing be accomplished at a fraction of the cost by distributing laptops with subscriptions to KhanAcademy etc ?

johnjhayes 9y ago
Consider extreme rural areas. I've lived most of my life in rural Alabama and libraries provide an essential resource for many. Giving these people a laptop and a subscription doesn't help much if they don't have a decent internet connection (or one at all).
- ue_ 9y ago
  Perhaps the internet connection could be funded in a similar way to libraries, then.
chickenfries 9y ago
There is still value in WiFi and a quiet place to work, especially if you're not wealthy and you don't have an office set up in your home, or don't have good quality internet, or home internet at all.