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Your own source shows defense as 17% of overall spending. As a percentage of income tax receipts, the number for military spending is closer to 25%. See, for e

by zaroth 9y ago

Your own source shows defense as 17% of overall spending. As a percentage of income tax receipts, the number for military spending is closer to 25%. See, for example, https://www.nationalpriorities.org/interactive-data/taxday/ https://www.nationalpriorities.org/interactive-data/taxday/

toomuchtodo 9y ago
It's 21% for FY 2016 (which is a percentage based on including social security and medicare, which as I mentioned, are not part of federal income tax receipts; the percentage ). 2017 isn't done yet; I'm not using an estimate with an administration going sideways. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_... "Military budget of the United States. ... The budget funds 4 branches of the U.S. military: the Army, Marine Corps, Navy, and Air Force. In FY 2015, Pentagon and related spending totaled $598 billion, about 54% of the fiscal year 2015 U.S. discretionary budget." Yes, we're spending that much on the military. Yes, its pathetic. Yes, its why its best to avoid (not evade, which is illegal) paying income tax whenever possible. I prefer my welfare programs not enable the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of civilians in a foreign country, but that's just me.
- zaroth 9y ago
  OK, that is bizarre; visit usgovernmentspending.com site on mobile and the chart says US FY2016 spending on Defense is 17%. On desktop, the chart says 21%.... In any case, as a percentage of federal income tax it does seem that defense is around 25%. "U.S. discretionary spending" is simply spending which is authorized annually instead of authorized by laws spanning multiple years. It doesn't seem to be a highly meaningful categorization if you are arguing about where your dollars are going -- the dollars don't care what year they were authorized to be spent. Separating out payroll vs income taxes -- in other words recognizing the different tax rates for "earned" vs. "unearned" income -- is not entirely irrelevant, because dollar for dollar your capital gains taxes will be spent more on defense than welfare, but it's still no where near 50% of your capital gains taxes being spent on defense.
  - toomuchtodo 9y ago
    > Separating out payroll vs income taxes -- in other words recognizing the different tax rates for "earned" vs. "unearned" income -- is not entirely irrelevant, because dollar for dollar your capital gains taxes will be spent more on defense than welfare, but it's still no where near 50% of your capital gains taxes being spent on defense. So that's not entirely how income vs payroll taxes work. If you get a paycheck, out comes taxes for social security and Medicare. There is an annual limit on how much of your income is taxed for social security, whereas there is no limit for Medicare, and there's a bump in the Medicare rate after a very high dollar amount (near $250k/year if I recall). For our argument, none of the above is refundable (if you pay too much social security tax because of multiple W2 employers, the extra tax gets applied to your federal income liability). For income tax, lots of people pay through their paycheck, although if you're below a certain yearly income threshold, federal income tax is not withheld (you even get a refundable tax credit for working if you're poor enough). Also, as you mentioned, capital gains taxes also are federal income tax revenue. So, income tax is not unearned income alone.
  - pmoriarty 9y ago
    For a different view on this, see The Trickery of the US Military Budget.[1] "A key federal budget trick is using words to confuse citizens, such as labeling U.S. military spending as “defense” though much is for “offense” and sliding costs for wounded soldiers under “veterans affairs” and nuclear bombs under “energy,” as ex-CIA analyst Paul R. Pillar explains..." Also, from [2]: "The most recent figures related to President Trump’s proposed increases in Pentagon spending, along with cuts at the State Department, show the general national security budget of the United States rising once again, with the 2018 proposal in the ballpark of $1.1 trillion." Finally, see [3], where the budget breakdown is: The Pentagon budget - $575 billion The war budget - $64.6 billion Nuclear warheads - $20 billion ‘Other Defense’ - $8 billion Homeland security - $50 billion Military aid - $7 billion Intelligence - $70 billion Supporting veterans - $186 billion Military retirement - $80 billion Defense share of interest on the debt - $100 billion [1] - http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article33833.htm http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article33833.htm [2] - http://www.veteransnewsnow.com/2017/06/02/1015056-the-militarysecurity-complex-is-bankrupting-america/ http://www.veteransnewsnow.com/2017/06/02/1015056-the-milita... [3] - https://warisboring.com/the-trillion-dollar-military-budget/ https://warisboring.com/the-trillion-dollar-military-budget/

by zaroth 9y ago

toomuchtodo 9y ago

It's 21% for FY 2016 (which is a percentage based on including social security and medicare, which as I mentioned, are not part of federal income tax receipts; the percentage ). 2017 isn't done yet; I'm not using an estimate with an administration going sideways. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_... "Military budget of the United States. ... The budget funds 4 branches of the U.S. military: the Army, Marine Corps, Navy, and Air Force. In FY 2015, Pentagon and related spending totaled $598 billion, about 54% of the fiscal year 2015 U.S. discretionary budget." Yes, we're spending that much on the military. Yes, its pathetic. Yes, its why its best to avoid (not evade, which is illegal) paying income tax whenever possible. I prefer my welfare programs not enable the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of civilians in a foreign country, but that's just me.

zaroth 9y ago
OK, that is bizarre; visit usgovernmentspending.com site on mobile and the chart says US FY2016 spending on Defense is 17%. On desktop, the chart says 21%.... In any case, as a percentage of federal income tax it does seem that defense is around 25%. "U.S. discretionary spending" is simply spending which is authorized annually instead of authorized by laws spanning multiple years. It doesn't seem to be a highly meaningful categorization if you are arguing about where your dollars are going -- the dollars don't care what year they were authorized to be spent. Separating out payroll vs income taxes -- in other words recognizing the different tax rates for "earned" vs. "unearned" income -- is not entirely irrelevant, because dollar for dollar your capital gains taxes will be spent more on defense than welfare, but it's still no where near 50% of your capital gains taxes being spent on defense.
- toomuchtodo 9y ago
  > Separating out payroll vs income taxes -- in other words recognizing the different tax rates for "earned" vs. "unearned" income -- is not entirely irrelevant, because dollar for dollar your capital gains taxes will be spent more on defense than welfare, but it's still no where near 50% of your capital gains taxes being spent on defense. So that's not entirely how income vs payroll taxes work. If you get a paycheck, out comes taxes for social security and Medicare. There is an annual limit on how much of your income is taxed for social security, whereas there is no limit for Medicare, and there's a bump in the Medicare rate after a very high dollar amount (near $250k/year if I recall). For our argument, none of the above is refundable (if you pay too much social security tax because of multiple W2 employers, the extra tax gets applied to your federal income liability). For income tax, lots of people pay through their paycheck, although if you're below a certain yearly income threshold, federal income tax is not withheld (you even get a refundable tax credit for working if you're poor enough). Also, as you mentioned, capital gains taxes also are federal income tax revenue. So, income tax is not unearned income alone.
- pmoriarty 9y ago
  For a different view on this, see The Trickery of the US Military Budget.[1] "A key federal budget trick is using words to confuse citizens, such as labeling U.S. military spending as “defense” though much is for “offense” and sliding costs for wounded soldiers under “veterans affairs” and nuclear bombs under “energy,” as ex-CIA analyst Paul R. Pillar explains..." Also, from [2]: "The most recent figures related to President Trump’s proposed increases in Pentagon spending, along with cuts at the State Department, show the general national security budget of the United States rising once again, with the 2018 proposal in the ballpark of $1.1 trillion." Finally, see [3], where the budget breakdown is: The Pentagon budget - $575 billion The war budget - $64.6 billion Nuclear warheads - $20 billion ‘Other Defense’ - $8 billion Homeland security - $50 billion Military aid - $7 billion Intelligence - $70 billion Supporting veterans - $186 billion Military retirement - $80 billion Defense share of interest on the debt - $100 billion [1] - http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article33833.htm http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article33833.htm [2] - http://www.veteransnewsnow.com/2017/06/02/1015056-the-militarysecurity-complex-is-bankrupting-america/ http://www.veteransnewsnow.com/2017/06/02/1015056-the-milita... [3] - https://warisboring.com/the-trillion-dollar-military-budget/ https://warisboring.com/the-trillion-dollar-military-budget/