4 ms·

Why are you getting so personal in attacking this dude? One can support a Nazi's right to free speech even while being 100 percent against Nazis or Nazism.

Angostura 9y ago
OP was asserting equivalence between the two groups in terms of violence. The poster you are responding to pointed out that one of the groups came tooled up. This is not a free speech issue.
FussyZeus 9y ago
I used to believe that; but the attitude in America that it's free speech and everyone should have their say, while applicable to nearly anything, does have many exceptions. The ideology that caused, directly and without ambiguity, the death of over 6 million people is not a position to be argued, it's not a viewpoint worthy of consideration. It's possibly the only one humans should just say "You know, this has nothing to offer us in any capacity and should be left to the dustbin of history" to.
- ahugebeach 9y ago
  Communism and religion killed way more people than 6 million. Yet we dont ban them, yet.
  - FussyZeus 9y ago
    True but misleading. The deaths caused by communism were not a direct result of communism, they were the result of a corrupt Communist Party exerting will. Similarly, the vast majority of death caused by Religion was due to corrupt religious figures exerting their power, not a core function of the religion. Nazis, on the other hand, carried the ideals that led to the holocaust as a core component of the ideology, i.e. the purity of race and country. You wouldn't have the holocaust without the Nazis.
  - sctb 9y ago
    This is the spark of the most tedious, hopeless, information-free kind of flamewar. They don't belong on HN and you're not welcome to incite them. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- Pulcinella 9y ago
  It also caused world war. Nazi's and their ideas were straight up enemies of the United States and many other countries. Edit: Which is to say that I agree with you.
pjc50 9y ago
> Why are you getting so personal in attacking this dude? He's just exercising his right to free speech.
hpcjoe 9y ago
As someone whose family the nazi's took great pains to eradicate ... I'd like to come out strongly in favor of not suppressing their speech. If for no other reason, than idiots tend to self-identify, and I really don't want to have to start searching for whom the next group of idiots are that I need to worry about wanting to off me and my family. This is a little hyperbolic. Though the rest is not. I've seen this up close and personal, in business, in personal life. I regularly dealt with, had to work with such assholes in SV startups, VCs. I was taught by such assholes in primary/secondary school, undergrad and grad school, smiling as they spewed their vile invectives. I see comments on otherwise respectable news and information sites pop up with well worn and well known calumnies and blood libels, not to mention tired stereotypes which have no bearing on reality. These are the things that the nazis (won't capitalize those bastards) say out loud, whilst the asswipes who may still think them keep close to their vest. If the nazis are gone, I have to worry about whom else harbors these particularly stupid views. I want to know who I need to warn my offspring about. Telling sh!t-for-brains to keep their yaps shut because they are idiots, complicates my search algorithms. So, no. Please don't have them shut up. Assholes tend to self-identify by opening their mouths. I want to know exactly who they are.
pinaceae 9y ago
And this position conflates free speech with consequence free speech. You have the right in the US to openly be a Nazi. I also have the right to call you a fucking Nazi for it. I am also free to remind you what the US did to Nazis in WW2 and in the Nürnberg trials. And I can remind you that anyone that thinks that the US did the wrong thing back then, well, is a Nazi enabler. So, you see, if you join a club that calls for the extermination of whole races - you yourself should live with the consequences of that decision. Unlike being black, gay, etc being a Nazi is a choice. You choose to try to send women and children into gas chambers. So FUCK Nazis. Punch em, hunt them, kill them. Just like ISIS and Al-Quaeda. Same forever alone squad of men who can't get any.
- sctb 9y ago
  We've banned this account for repeatedly violating the guidelines after we've asked you to stop. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Angostura 9y ago

OP was asserting equivalence between the two groups in terms of violence. The poster you are responding to pointed out that one of the groups came tooled up. This is not a free speech issue.

FussyZeus 9y ago

I used to believe that; but the attitude in America that it's free speech and everyone should have their say, while applicable to nearly anything, does have many exceptions. The ideology that caused, directly and without ambiguity, the death of over 6 million people is not a position to be argued, it's not a viewpoint worthy of consideration. It's possibly the only one humans should just say "You know, this has nothing to offer us in any capacity and should be left to the dustbin of history" to.

ahugebeach 9y ago
Communism and religion killed way more people than 6 million. Yet we dont ban them, yet.
- FussyZeus 9y ago
  True but misleading. The deaths caused by communism were not a direct result of communism, they were the result of a corrupt Communist Party exerting will. Similarly, the vast majority of death caused by Religion was due to corrupt religious figures exerting their power, not a core function of the religion. Nazis, on the other hand, carried the ideals that led to the holocaust as a core component of the ideology, i.e. the purity of race and country. You wouldn't have the holocaust without the Nazis.
- sctb 9y ago
  This is the spark of the most tedious, hopeless, information-free kind of flamewar. They don't belong on HN and you're not welcome to incite them. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Pulcinella 9y ago
It also caused world war. Nazi's and their ideas were straight up enemies of the United States and many other countries. Edit: Which is to say that I agree with you.

pjc50 9y ago

> Why are you getting so personal in attacking this dude? He's just exercising his right to free speech.

hpcjoe 9y ago

As someone whose family the nazi's took great pains to eradicate ... I'd like to come out strongly in favor of not suppressing their speech. If for no other reason, than idiots tend to self-identify, and I really don't want to have to start searching for whom the next group of idiots are that I need to worry about wanting to off me and my family. This is a little hyperbolic. Though the rest is not. I've seen this up close and personal, in business, in personal life. I regularly dealt with, had to work with such assholes in SV startups, VCs. I was taught by such assholes in primary/secondary school, undergrad and grad school, smiling as they spewed their vile invectives. I see comments on otherwise respectable news and information sites pop up with well worn and well known calumnies and blood libels, not to mention tired stereotypes which have no bearing on reality. These are the things that the nazis (won't capitalize those bastards) say out loud, whilst the asswipes who may still think them keep close to their vest. If the nazis are gone, I have to worry about whom else harbors these particularly stupid views. I want to know who I need to warn my offspring about. Telling sh!t-for-brains to keep their yaps shut because they are idiots, complicates my search algorithms. So, no. Please don't have them shut up. Assholes tend to self-identify by opening their mouths. I want to know exactly who they are.

pinaceae 9y ago

And this position conflates free speech with consequence free speech. You have the right in the US to openly be a Nazi. I also have the right to call you a fucking Nazi for it. I am also free to remind you what the US did to Nazis in WW2 and in the Nürnberg trials. And I can remind you that anyone that thinks that the US did the wrong thing back then, well, is a Nazi enabler. So, you see, if you join a club that calls for the extermination of whole races - you yourself should live with the consequences of that decision. Unlike being black, gay, etc being a Nazi is a choice. You choose to try to send women and children into gas chambers. So FUCK Nazis. Punch em, hunt them, kill them. Just like ISIS and Al-Quaeda. Same forever alone squad of men who can't get any.

sctb 9y ago
We've banned this account for repeatedly violating the guidelines after we've asked you to stop. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html