4 ms·

It's like a lose-lose. Stay on the council, you ostensibly are committed to keeping manufacturing jobs in the US, but could be seen as complicit of Trump. Leave

It's like a lose-lose. Stay on the council, you ostensibly are committed to keeping manufacturing jobs in the US, but could be seen as complicit of Trump. Leave, and you're making a stand against Trump...while at the same time leaving one of the few good things he has going for him. And let's be honest, without some sort of external coercion, these companies aren't going to stay in the US.

Angostura 9y ago
You say that's leaving is problematic, but is there evidence that these councils have any influence in shaping policy? They look more like ego-boosts for the president: 'I've collected these guys'
drzaiusapelord 9y ago
>And let's be honest, without some sort of external coercion, these companies aren't going to stay in the US. Chip fabs are already overseas and there's zero practical approaches to bring them here. President "Job Creator" can't bring these jobs here, period. Intel's various management, engineering, marketing, etc jobs aren't going anywhere.
- 11thEarlOfMar 9y ago
  I guess you missed this. Intel announced in Feb this year that they are spending $7B in Arizona to build a chip fab: https://www.wsj.com/articles/intel-corp-announces-7-billion-investment-in-arizona-plant-1486578589 https://www.wsj.com/articles/intel-corp-announces-7-billion-...
  - drzaiusapelord 9y ago
    Wonderful, but its the state or Arizona taking the tax and regulatory hit to build that factory, which compliments the two existing ones Intel has. President Trump's credit for this deal is the usual meaningless ass-kissing presidents get, but ultimately its Arizona that made that happen the same way Arizona made the previous plants happen. Also this it to finish a factory thats been in the building stages during the Obama administration. >In fact, the factory, which was originally announced back in 2011 and largely completed by 2014 was put on hold not because of regulatory burden, but because of declining PC sales Being on the manufacturing council doesn't affect this nor did it make it happen. The council as a "jobs creator" is laughable especially when we're talking about an Obama-era factory. https://www.engadget.com/2017/02/08/intel-arizona-factory-7-billion-3000-jobs-fab-42/ https://www.engadget.com/2017/02/08/intel-arizona-factory-7-...
aphextron 9y ago
But has this "American Manufacturing Council" been anything but a vanity project for Trump? He seems to love parading these people around for photo ops, but has a single meaningful anything come of it yet? I think people are seeing the writing on the wall with regards to this presidency as of last week.[0] [0] http://www.gallup.com/poll/201617/gallup-daily-trump-job-approval.aspx http://www.gallup.com/poll/201617/gallup-daily-trump-job-app...
wyldfire 9y ago
Protectionism is not an answer, it's never worked before and it won't work now.
- Qwertious 9y ago
  You're not wrong, but your logic is flawed - things are happening now that have never happened before, like New Automation, that are massive game-changers. This means that things that have never worked before, will start working.
  - JoeAltmaier 9y ago
    But to be fair, there's no going back. Automation means we don't actually need people to do huge numbers of things. Those displaced people may never have a job again. What got us here, won't get us where we're going. It's all going to have to be reexamined.
    - leereeves 9y ago
      > Those displaced people may never have a job again. The unemployment rate is at the lowest level since 2001, and excluding 2000-2001, the lowest level since 1969. https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=z1ebjpgk2654c1_&met_y=unemployment_rate&idim=country:US&fdim_y=seasonality:S&hl=en&dl=en https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=z1ebjpgk2654c1_...
      - JoeAltmaier 9y ago
        And next, McD's and Carls' are planning to do away with the counter staff. Banks automating tellers completely. Some 30 millions of Americans out of a job, at the lowest levels. What then? Automation is exploding at a dizzying rate for a decade now. Our ability to accommodate will be exceeded soon. Further, that graph looks like what happens when people fall off the employment rolls - they quit looking for a job and no longer show up as 'unemployed'. How can we tell that's not responsible?
settsu 9y ago
> ...you ostensibly are committed to keeping manufacturing jobs in the US > ...these companies aren't going to stay in the US A problem with these is the presumption that it is a timelessly, inherently, and unquestionably good objective. Just like the pursuit of (re)creating coal jobs, as if that's prudent and admirable, no matter what. > ...could be seen as complicit of Trump. "Could"? I don't think anyone who's being intellectually honest would be able to claim otherwise. If you serve a leader in an advisory role, you are actively in support of their policies and actions. Even if you disagree and the leader chooses otherwise or acts contrary to your advice, your role by its nature demonstrates that you are deferring to their leadership, thus you support it. (I acknowledge that you are explaining views that are not necessarily your own.)

Angostura 9y ago

You say that's leaving is problematic, but is there evidence that these councils have any influence in shaping policy? They look more like ego-boosts for the president: 'I've collected these guys'

drzaiusapelord 9y ago

>And let's be honest, without some sort of external coercion, these companies aren't going to stay in the US. Chip fabs are already overseas and there's zero practical approaches to bring them here. President "Job Creator" can't bring these jobs here, period. Intel's various management, engineering, marketing, etc jobs aren't going anywhere.

11thEarlOfMar 9y ago
I guess you missed this. Intel announced in Feb this year that they are spending $7B in Arizona to build a chip fab: https://www.wsj.com/articles/intel-corp-announces-7-billion-investment-in-arizona-plant-1486578589 https://www.wsj.com/articles/intel-corp-announces-7-billion-...
- drzaiusapelord 9y ago
  Wonderful, but its the state or Arizona taking the tax and regulatory hit to build that factory, which compliments the two existing ones Intel has. President Trump's credit for this deal is the usual meaningless ass-kissing presidents get, but ultimately its Arizona that made that happen the same way Arizona made the previous plants happen. Also this it to finish a factory thats been in the building stages during the Obama administration. >In fact, the factory, which was originally announced back in 2011 and largely completed by 2014 was put on hold not because of regulatory burden, but because of declining PC sales Being on the manufacturing council doesn't affect this nor did it make it happen. The council as a "jobs creator" is laughable especially when we're talking about an Obama-era factory. https://www.engadget.com/2017/02/08/intel-arizona-factory-7-billion-3000-jobs-fab-42/ https://www.engadget.com/2017/02/08/intel-arizona-factory-7-...

aphextron 9y ago

But has this "American Manufacturing Council" been anything but a vanity project for Trump? He seems to love parading these people around for photo ops, but has a single meaningful anything come of it yet? I think people are seeing the writing on the wall with regards to this presidency as of last week.[0] [0] http://www.gallup.com/poll/201617/gallup-daily-trump-job-approval.aspx http://www.gallup.com/poll/201617/gallup-daily-trump-job-app...

wyldfire 9y ago

Protectionism is not an answer, it's never worked before and it won't work now.

Qwertious 9y ago
You're not wrong, but your logic is flawed - things are happening now that have never happened before, like New Automation, that are massive game-changers. This means that things that have never worked before, will start working.
- JoeAltmaier 9y ago
  But to be fair, there's no going back. Automation means we don't actually need people to do huge numbers of things. Those displaced people may never have a job again. What got us here, won't get us where we're going. It's all going to have to be reexamined.
  - leereeves 9y ago
    > Those displaced people may never have a job again. The unemployment rate is at the lowest level since 2001, and excluding 2000-2001, the lowest level since 1969. https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=z1ebjpgk2654c1_&met_y=unemployment_rate&idim=country:US&fdim_y=seasonality:S&hl=en&dl=en https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=z1ebjpgk2654c1_...
    - JoeAltmaier 9y ago
      And next, McD's and Carls' are planning to do away with the counter staff. Banks automating tellers completely. Some 30 millions of Americans out of a job, at the lowest levels. What then? Automation is exploding at a dizzying rate for a decade now. Our ability to accommodate will be exceeded soon. Further, that graph looks like what happens when people fall off the employment rolls - they quit looking for a job and no longer show up as 'unemployed'. How can we tell that's not responsible?

settsu 9y ago

> ...you ostensibly are committed to keeping manufacturing jobs in the US > ...these companies aren't going to stay in the US A problem with these is the presumption that it is a timelessly, inherently, and unquestionably good objective. Just like the pursuit of (re)creating coal jobs, as if that's prudent and admirable, no matter what. > ...could be seen as complicit of Trump. "Could"? I don't think anyone who's being intellectually honest would be able to claim otherwise. If you serve a leader in an advisory role, you are actively in support of their policies and actions. Even if you disagree and the leader chooses otherwise or acts contrary to your advice, your role by its nature demonstrates that you are deferring to their leadership, thus you support it. (I acknowledge that you are explaining views that are not necessarily your own.)