4 ms·

There is violence on all sides ... however, only one side appears to have the tacit approval of POTUS. I think we can safely assume that he already (and quite r

There is violence on all sides ... however, only one side appears to have the tacit approval of POTUS. I think we can safely assume that he already (and quite rightly) disapproves of left wing violence -- but a lot of us remain unconvinced by his seemingly forced and totally unconvincing denunciations of violence committed by those who also vocally support him and claim to act in his name. WE need to condemn violence on both sides. The president, on the other hand, particularly and specifically needs to convincingly disown right wing violence and the language of division and hatred. We will take a lot of convincing after this.

marcoperaza 9y ago
Why don't we demand the same disavowal of left wing radical groups like Antifa from Democratic politicians. There is countless footage of peaceful right-wing protesters getting beat, fire bombed, etc. at Berkeley and elsewhere.
- jacquesm 9y ago
  So, what's your position then regarding: - BLM - Antifa - the 'alt right' - the Neo Nazis / white supremacy groups
  - exo762 9y ago
    Pure cancer. All of them.
    - grasshopperpurp 9y ago
      A group asking police not to kill them in such great numbers should be grouped with white supremacists? Do you really believe that?
      - talmand 9y ago
        Which part of the group? The part that calls for an end to violence or the part that openly calls for violence against police officers? Lumping people into groups often times hides the positives and negatives of individuals.
        grasshopperpurp 9y ago
        Crooked police should be combated; police who do not stop crooked police should be combated. But, you seem to, at least, acknowledge that BLM has positive aspects. What positive aspects are there to white supremacists? https://theintercept.com/2017/01/31/the-fbi-has-quietly-investigated-white-supremacist-infiltration-of-law-enforcement/ https://theintercept.com/2017/01/31/the-fbi-has-quietly-inve... "First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45a/060.html http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45a/060.html
        talmand 9y ago
        Sorry, I don't play the game of false equivalence by comparing opposing groups. Especially in today's political and social climate.
        grasshopperpurp 9y ago
        Then what are you saying? I posted a screenshot of this conversation below. 1. Poster asks about other poster's position on the groups in question. 2. Other poster says, 'Pure cancer. All of them.' 3. I ask if poster is really equating groups like BLM to white supremacists. 4. You ask which part of the group. 5. I ask you what positive aspects can we attribute to white supremacists - since you seemed to be backing the guy grouping them together. 6. You say you don't compare opposing groups. So, why did you respond to the 3rd reply listed above with the 4th reply? If you don't want to compare groups, why are you injecting yourself into a conversation comparing groups? https://image.prntscr.com/image/4uCX51xFThaPUQ_HS-zinQ.png https://image.prntscr.com/image/4uCX51xFThaPUQ_HS-zinQ.png
- torkins 9y ago
  If don't you listen, you don't hear: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-ann-coulter-berkeley_us_58fb7006e4b00fa7de14bc3d http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-ann-coult... https://www.mediaite.com/tv/elizabeth-warren-to-berkeley-protesters-if-you-dont-like-ann-coulter-just-dont-show-up/ https://www.mediaite.com/tv/elizabeth-warren-to-berkeley-pro... re: Scalise Shooting: In a statement, Senator Sanders wrote that he had been “informed that the alleged shooter at the Republican baseball practice is someone who apparently volunteered on my presidential campaign.” He went on to say: “I am sickened by this despicable act. Let me be as clear as I can be. Violence of any kind is unacceptable in our society and I condemn this action in the strongest possible terms.” https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/06/scalise-shooting-congress-senate/530277/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/06/scalise... edit: and Obama on the BLM shooting in Dallas rightly called it a racist hate crime http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/obama-dallas-police-shooting-hate-225390 http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/obama-dallas-police-sh... That's my 5 minutes of doing your research for you. High ranking Democrat politicians don't tolerate heckler's veto, much less violence. Republicans are so cowed by losing support from their radicals that they can barely bring themselves to speak up against them. Charlottesville is notable in that its pretty much just Trump who failed to speak up.
  - leereeves 9y ago
    And Trump tweeted: > We ALL must be united & condemn all that hate stands for. There is no place for this kind of violence in America. Lets come together as one! https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/896420822780444672 https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/89642082278044467... He didn't fail to speak up.
    - throwawaymanbot 9y ago
      Hi lee, if you may have seen on the Internet, the Stormfront website, and not to mention other places you may have frequented. He indeed ticked the box of "speaking up". He sadly did not specifically point out the KKK/Alt-right/facists and how there was an attempt to murder a crowd of people. (His daughter did though point out the KKK/White supremacist part though in a tweet so kudos to her) The fascists were quite pleased he did not speak out specifically. Maybe you were not aware of this.
- w_t_payne 9y ago
  We can and we should. Democratic politicians need to strongly disavow and condemn violence in general and left wing violence in particular and in exactly the same manner Republican politicians need to strongly disavow and condemn violence and right wing violence in particular. I would also like to see politicians from across the political spectrum come together to endorse peaceful political processes and to emphasise that the criminality of violence and hate has no place in a democratic society.

marcoperaza 9y ago

Why don't we demand the same disavowal of left wing radical groups like Antifa from Democratic politicians. There is countless footage of peaceful right-wing protesters getting beat, fire bombed, etc. at Berkeley and elsewhere.

jacquesm 9y ago
So, what's your position then regarding: - BLM - Antifa - the 'alt right' - the Neo Nazis / white supremacy groups
- exo762 9y ago
  Pure cancer. All of them.
  - grasshopperpurp 9y ago
    A group asking police not to kill them in such great numbers should be grouped with white supremacists? Do you really believe that?
    - talmand 9y ago
      Which part of the group? The part that calls for an end to violence or the part that openly calls for violence against police officers? Lumping people into groups often times hides the positives and negatives of individuals.
      - grasshopperpurp 9y ago
        Crooked police should be combated; police who do not stop crooked police should be combated. But, you seem to, at least, acknowledge that BLM has positive aspects. What positive aspects are there to white supremacists? https://theintercept.com/2017/01/31/the-fbi-has-quietly-investigated-white-supremacist-infiltration-of-law-enforcement/ https://theintercept.com/2017/01/31/the-fbi-has-quietly-inve... "First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45a/060.html http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45a/060.html
        talmand 9y ago
        Sorry, I don't play the game of false equivalence by comparing opposing groups. Especially in today's political and social climate.
        grasshopperpurp 9y ago
        Then what are you saying? I posted a screenshot of this conversation below. 1. Poster asks about other poster's position on the groups in question. 2. Other poster says, 'Pure cancer. All of them.' 3. I ask if poster is really equating groups like BLM to white supremacists. 4. You ask which part of the group. 5. I ask you what positive aspects can we attribute to white supremacists - since you seemed to be backing the guy grouping them together. 6. You say you don't compare opposing groups. So, why did you respond to the 3rd reply listed above with the 4th reply? If you don't want to compare groups, why are you injecting yourself into a conversation comparing groups? https://image.prntscr.com/image/4uCX51xFThaPUQ_HS-zinQ.png https://image.prntscr.com/image/4uCX51xFThaPUQ_HS-zinQ.png
torkins 9y ago
If don't you listen, you don't hear: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-ann-coulter-berkeley_us_58fb7006e4b00fa7de14bc3d http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-ann-coult... https://www.mediaite.com/tv/elizabeth-warren-to-berkeley-protesters-if-you-dont-like-ann-coulter-just-dont-show-up/ https://www.mediaite.com/tv/elizabeth-warren-to-berkeley-pro... re: Scalise Shooting: In a statement, Senator Sanders wrote that he had been “informed that the alleged shooter at the Republican baseball practice is someone who apparently volunteered on my presidential campaign.” He went on to say: “I am sickened by this despicable act. Let me be as clear as I can be. Violence of any kind is unacceptable in our society and I condemn this action in the strongest possible terms.” https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/06/scalise-shooting-congress-senate/530277/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/06/scalise... edit: and Obama on the BLM shooting in Dallas rightly called it a racist hate crime http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/obama-dallas-police-shooting-hate-225390 http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/obama-dallas-police-sh... That's my 5 minutes of doing your research for you. High ranking Democrat politicians don't tolerate heckler's veto, much less violence. Republicans are so cowed by losing support from their radicals that they can barely bring themselves to speak up against them. Charlottesville is notable in that its pretty much just Trump who failed to speak up.
- leereeves 9y ago
  And Trump tweeted: > We ALL must be united & condemn all that hate stands for. There is no place for this kind of violence in America. Lets come together as one! https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/896420822780444672 https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/89642082278044467... He didn't fail to speak up.
  - throwawaymanbot 9y ago
    Hi lee, if you may have seen on the Internet, the Stormfront website, and not to mention other places you may have frequented. He indeed ticked the box of "speaking up". He sadly did not specifically point out the KKK/Alt-right/facists and how there was an attempt to murder a crowd of people. (His daughter did though point out the KKK/White supremacist part though in a tweet so kudos to her) The fascists were quite pleased he did not speak out specifically. Maybe you were not aware of this.
w_t_payne 9y ago
We can and we should. Democratic politicians need to strongly disavow and condemn violence in general and left wing violence in particular and in exactly the same manner Republican politicians need to strongly disavow and condemn violence and right wing violence in particular. I would also like to see politicians from across the political spectrum come together to endorse peaceful political processes and to emphasise that the criminality of violence and hate has no place in a democratic society.