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honestly I'd support a program where the more you work out the lower your insurance premiums would be. Pretty hard to cheat workouts with Apple Watch when it ha

by jeron 9y ago

honestly I'd support a program where the more you work out the lower your insurance premiums would be. Pretty hard to cheat workouts with Apple Watch when it has a heart rate sensor and all that.

zimpenfish 9y ago
Vitality (in the UK) link with a whole range of things - Health, Fitbit, Garmin, Polar, Moves, Nokia, etc. Although you get rewards from them (Starbucks drinks, cinema tickets, etc.) rather than straight discounts on your insurance.
- saiya-jin 9y ago
  exercise often to get some Starbucks drinks... hilarious
snarf21 9y ago
It isn't a horrible idea in the abstract but it seems likely sex would trigger data similar to most workouts. Also, there are people who eat healthy but don't have time for the gym. Conversely people who go to the gym everyday but mostly to try to burn up their Big Mac combo meal. From an insurance standpoint, I think HA1C is the only measure we could like use. Things like BMI, etc. are too varied based on genetics.
- Maakuth 9y ago
  You generally get what you measure, so be careful to measure what you want to get. Isn't elevated heart rate connected to better health outcomes no matter what physical activity it comes from? Why should the insurance company care if some of it is sex instead of, say, running?
- tonyedgecombe 9y ago
  it seems likely sex would trigger data similar to most workouts Marketers would have a field day with that data.
  - pawadu 9y ago
    At Runkeeper secret facilities, new year of 2019: "This guy had increased heart rate followed by two minutes of physical activity... Joe, call Pfizer immediately!"
  - tyingq 9y ago
    >it seems likely sex would trigger data similar to most workouts Accelerometers and GPS would allow them to narrow down specific types and patterns of sex as well. Lots of sex in cheap motels == high risk. Correlating customers together..this one has HIV, and appears to be having sex with this customer == high risk. Fun.
maxerickson 9y ago
It's super easy. Strap it to someone else.
- drewg123 9y ago
  Or to a machine, like Howard did on the Big Bang Theory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnTXqqCVaSI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnTXqqCVaSI
  - brlewis 9y ago
    True for current exercise tracking. I don't know about the future "large swaths of new health data" though.
    - drewg123 9y ago
      Well, perhaps a sufficiently complex machine that can fool their sensors, then.
  - Sleeep 9y ago
    That reminds me, back during the Tamagotchi craze (which coincided with the Pokemon craze) there was a virtual pet Pikachu that rewarded you for walking (it was a pedometer) and the screen would show Pikachu walking while you were. It was pretty cute. Well, it wasn't long before my little brother figured out how to "cheat" He put it on the washer. (I think dryer worked as well)
Noos 9y ago
You're okay with corporations having extremely intrusive tools to track your behavior and control it through price for their own benefit?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- zimpenfish 9y ago
  For health (which we're talking about), life, or car insurance (since a bunch of UK insurers also have "safe driving" apps that earn you points, etc.), yeah, sure, why not?
  - coldtea 9y ago
    Because obviously they can use those to profit by dropping eg people they diagnose (or just infer statistically) with serious problems before they develop, or raise their prices, etc. This is not about some extra win-win motivation to be healthier... It's about turning risk (which is supposed to be what insurance companies are paid for) into rent-seeking...
- notfromhere 9y ago
  If the insurance scheme is public, incentivizing individuals to remain healthy in order to lower the cost for everyone is a civil duty.
matrixtransform 9y ago
You could cheat by giving the watch to someone else to do a workout for you?
- Sleeep 9y ago
  I imagine someone working out with like 6 fitness trackers attached to them.
  - tyingq 9y ago
    Strap one to your largish dog with a heart rate close to human range.
frubar 9y ago
What I would be afraid of, here, is that if there are signs that big data can uncover that peel out some catastrophic disease from your workout data that would mean your insurance company knows you're very ill long before you do... It would extremely tempting not to do something about that knowledge that helps the company even if it hurts a soon-to-be-dead-anyway person.

by jeron 9y ago

honestly I'd support a program where the more you work out the lower your insurance premiums would be. Pretty hard to cheat workouts with Apple Watch when it has a heart rate sensor and all that.

zimpenfish 9y ago

Vitality (in the UK) link with a whole range of things - Health, Fitbit, Garmin, Polar, Moves, Nokia, etc. Although you get rewards from them (Starbucks drinks, cinema tickets, etc.) rather than straight discounts on your insurance.

saiya-jin 9y ago
exercise often to get some Starbucks drinks... hilarious

snarf21 9y ago

It isn't a horrible idea in the abstract but it seems likely sex would trigger data similar to most workouts. Also, there are people who eat healthy but don't have time for the gym. Conversely people who go to the gym everyday but mostly to try to burn up their Big Mac combo meal. From an insurance standpoint, I think HA1C is the only measure we could like use. Things like BMI, etc. are too varied based on genetics.

Maakuth 9y ago
You generally get what you measure, so be careful to measure what you want to get. Isn't elevated heart rate connected to better health outcomes no matter what physical activity it comes from? Why should the insurance company care if some of it is sex instead of, say, running?
tonyedgecombe 9y ago
it seems likely sex would trigger data similar to most workouts Marketers would have a field day with that data.
- pawadu 9y ago
  At Runkeeper secret facilities, new year of 2019: "This guy had increased heart rate followed by two minutes of physical activity... Joe, call Pfizer immediately!"
- tyingq 9y ago
  >it seems likely sex would trigger data similar to most workouts Accelerometers and GPS would allow them to narrow down specific types and patterns of sex as well. Lots of sex in cheap motels == high risk. Correlating customers together..this one has HIV, and appears to be having sex with this customer == high risk. Fun.

maxerickson 9y ago

It's super easy. Strap it to someone else.

drewg123 9y ago
Or to a machine, like Howard did on the Big Bang Theory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnTXqqCVaSI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnTXqqCVaSI
- brlewis 9y ago
  True for current exercise tracking. I don't know about the future "large swaths of new health data" though.
  - drewg123 9y ago
    Well, perhaps a sufficiently complex machine that can fool their sensors, then.
- Sleeep 9y ago
  That reminds me, back during the Tamagotchi craze (which coincided with the Pokemon craze) there was a virtual pet Pikachu that rewarded you for walking (it was a pedometer) and the screen would show Pikachu walking while you were. It was pretty cute. Well, it wasn't long before my little brother figured out how to "cheat" He put it on the washer. (I think dryer worked as well)

Noos 9y ago

You're okay with corporations having extremely intrusive tools to track your behavior and control it through price for their own benefit?

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
zimpenfish 9y ago
For health (which we're talking about), life, or car insurance (since a bunch of UK insurers also have "safe driving" apps that earn you points, etc.), yeah, sure, why not?
- coldtea 9y ago
  Because obviously they can use those to profit by dropping eg people they diagnose (or just infer statistically) with serious problems before they develop, or raise their prices, etc. This is not about some extra win-win motivation to be healthier... It's about turning risk (which is supposed to be what insurance companies are paid for) into rent-seeking...
notfromhere 9y ago
If the insurance scheme is public, incentivizing individuals to remain healthy in order to lower the cost for everyone is a civil duty.

matrixtransform 9y ago

You could cheat by giving the watch to someone else to do a workout for you?

Sleeep 9y ago
I imagine someone working out with like 6 fitness trackers attached to them.
- tyingq 9y ago
  Strap one to your largish dog with a heart rate close to human range.

frubar 9y ago

What I would be afraid of, here, is that if there are signs that big data can uncover that peel out some catastrophic disease from your workout data that would mean your insurance company knows you're very ill long before you do... It would extremely tempting not to do something about that knowledge that helps the company even if it hurts a soon-to-be-dead-anyway person.