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> A caveat to all of these points: I also now consume very little sugar and alcohol and I meditate regularly. Things like this generally make me wary. Not so m

> A caveat to all of these points: I also now consume very little sugar and alcohol and I meditate regularly. Things like this generally make me wary. Not so much because of them causing side effects that are harder to disentangle, but their adoption indicating that the author is fairly stabilized, which is a giant side effect in itself.

throwaway0071 9y ago
I have a fairly unhealthy lifestyle. When I started getting panic attacks, trembling, palpitations, skin rashes, walking up 5x during the night, feeling exhausted all day, etc, I stopped taking caffeine... And did not change a single other thing. It took me over a month to few "normal" again. First week: headaches, back pain, vomiting, nausea, cramps, etc. Second week: feeling like shit. Had no energy for anything. Third week: a resemblance of being normal again. Fourth week: feeling like I was at 60% of my previous energy levels and thinking "this sucks but if this is the new normal, I can get used to it". Second month: energy levels are back, never feel sleepy again, focus is back completely, etc. I'm even thinking about gym, running, etc. So this is my data point. From 3-4 expressos and of caffeinated sodas to zero.
- DiThi 9y ago
  Did those expressos and sodas have sugar?
  - throwaway0071 9y ago
    Sodas.. of course? Expressos, no. I didn't stop taking sugar. I only dropped coffee and stopped taking caffeinated sodas... I didn't stop taking sodas.
    - DiThi 9y ago
      Then, if you cut out sugars completely you'll discover a new height of energy. Probably after a few days of withdrawal.
- gizzlon 9y ago
  > "His research suggested that withdrawals began within 12–24 hours after stopping caffeine intake and could last as long as nine days" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine_dependence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine_dependence
- pgsandstrom 9y ago
  This could be explained by regression towards the mean. When your health problems reached an extreme they were very likely to eventually get better. This might have happened regardless of any changes to your lifestyle. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_toward_the_mean https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_toward_the_mean It really is a very fascinating phenomenon. My friend who works as a psychologist have noticed that the most "successful" work is to always accept crisis patients immediately. If they have to queue for 2 months before getting clinical help, they have often improved by themselves, and it is therefore harder to reduce their problems further.
  - throwaway0071 9y ago
    I'm having a hard time figuring out your point for this specific situation. Are you saying the list of symptoms I described would eventually go away by itself?
    - trendia 9y ago
      (I'm not op). It's not that there's a regression-to-mean force that eliminates abnormal symptoms. It's more that the symptoms have some underlying cause that will fix itself over time. If you start some intervention (such as stopping caffeine) at the same time you are naturally getting better, then you nay false attribute your getting better to the intervention rather than to its real cause: our bodies tend to bounch back from illness.
DiThi 9y ago
I feel all the benefits the author mentions, not by giving up coffee, but giving up carbs during morning and afternoon, and having some light exercise every day.
rubinelli 9y ago
This why it's so hard to do controlled experiments: habits rarely come alone. When you change a habit, you often start a cascade that changes significant parts of your life. Some habits make your life considerably better, like exercising regularly leading to eating, sleeping, and working better, sometimes worse, like smoking leading to drinking.

throwaway0071 9y ago

I have a fairly unhealthy lifestyle. When I started getting panic attacks, trembling, palpitations, skin rashes, walking up 5x during the night, feeling exhausted all day, etc, I stopped taking caffeine... And did not change a single other thing. It took me over a month to few "normal" again. First week: headaches, back pain, vomiting, nausea, cramps, etc. Second week: feeling like shit. Had no energy for anything. Third week: a resemblance of being normal again. Fourth week: feeling like I was at 60% of my previous energy levels and thinking "this sucks but if this is the new normal, I can get used to it". Second month: energy levels are back, never feel sleepy again, focus is back completely, etc. I'm even thinking about gym, running, etc. So this is my data point. From 3-4 expressos and of caffeinated sodas to zero.

DiThi 9y ago
Did those expressos and sodas have sugar?
- throwaway0071 9y ago
  Sodas.. of course? Expressos, no. I didn't stop taking sugar. I only dropped coffee and stopped taking caffeinated sodas... I didn't stop taking sodas.
  - DiThi 9y ago
    Then, if you cut out sugars completely you'll discover a new height of energy. Probably after a few days of withdrawal.
gizzlon 9y ago
> "His research suggested that withdrawals began within 12–24 hours after stopping caffeine intake and could last as long as nine days" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine_dependence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine_dependence
pgsandstrom 9y ago
This could be explained by regression towards the mean. When your health problems reached an extreme they were very likely to eventually get better. This might have happened regardless of any changes to your lifestyle. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_toward_the_mean https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_toward_the_mean It really is a very fascinating phenomenon. My friend who works as a psychologist have noticed that the most "successful" work is to always accept crisis patients immediately. If they have to queue for 2 months before getting clinical help, they have often improved by themselves, and it is therefore harder to reduce their problems further.
- throwaway0071 9y ago
  I'm having a hard time figuring out your point for this specific situation. Are you saying the list of symptoms I described would eventually go away by itself?
  - trendia 9y ago
    (I'm not op). It's not that there's a regression-to-mean force that eliminates abnormal symptoms. It's more that the symptoms have some underlying cause that will fix itself over time. If you start some intervention (such as stopping caffeine) at the same time you are naturally getting better, then you nay false attribute your getting better to the intervention rather than to its real cause: our bodies tend to bounch back from illness.

DiThi 9y ago

I feel all the benefits the author mentions, not by giving up coffee, but giving up carbs during morning and afternoon, and having some light exercise every day.

rubinelli 9y ago

This why it's so hard to do controlled experiments: habits rarely come alone. When you change a habit, you often start a cascade that changes significant parts of your life. Some habits make your life considerably better, like exercising regularly leading to eating, sleeping, and working better, sometimes worse, like smoking leading to drinking.