4 ms·

> Outside of our unfixable segregated ghettos, where serial killers are murdering people every day, America is fine. And the ghettos are easy enough to avoid.

> Outside of our unfixable segregated ghettos, where serial killers are murdering people every day, America is fine. And the ghettos are easy enough to avoid. "Everything is fine for me, therefore everything is fine!" But you're right: The neo-Nazis seem mostly to be buffoons, more-or-less. We have some people in the White House who are having a very difficult time taking the obvious moral stance against them, though. Decrying Nazis is literally the most no-brainer thing a politician can do. This is the softest softball of national crises. And our President completely whiffed it.

KGIII 9y ago
Didn't he release a statement decrying the racists and suggesting we come together? I've seen it quoted over the past two days. I suppose I could seek an official source.
- chasing 9y ago
  He did today. Seems like his handlers convinced him: His tweets about it seemed pretty crabby. But over the weekend he definitely came off as completely tone-deaf -- to the point of neo-Nazi groups actually wondering if he was supporting them. I actually don't think that means he supports Nazis. But he's the President. And part of the job is helping the country deal with situations like this.
- GeneralMayhem 9y ago
  After a literal Nazi literally killed someone at a literal Nazi rally, the President issued a statement in which he said that violence is bad and that both sides were to blame. Two days later, after basically everyone on the planet (including GOP leadership, because even spineless gutter-feeders can tell what an obvious political slam-dunk this is) had had a chance to suggest to him that maybe the literal Nazis literally killing people were maybe a tiny bit more at fault than the woman that they had killed for standing across the street from them and peacefully counter-protesting, he finally issued another statement saying that white supremacists maybe aren't so great after all. You'll forgive me for not putting too much stock in the second statement, given the circumstances.
  - ams6110 9y ago
    Not all the counter-protesters were peaceful. Best thing that could have happened would be for everyone to ignore this small fringe wacko group of people. This was instead taken as an opportunity to create a crisis, which could then be used to advance a narrative.
  - aaron-lebo 9y ago
    Disclaimer: I'm not defending nazis, murderers, or nazi murderers. Trump's statement seems thoughtless but it's not completely incorrect. For months we've had antifa protesters who have gotten into violent fights with nazis and alt-right supporters at rallies. There's a lot of people very proud of that. At the very least at this rally there were antifa protesters carrying bats and wearing helmets, using pepper spray, etc. Now whether that's justified is another issue, but a lot of us would like it if the fringes of both sides would chill out, before violence they can't control breaks out as it so often can do.
- AaronFriel 9y ago
  The White House refused to condemn the KKK, Nazis, or white supremacy by name for more than two days. Until the August 14th statement by the President, the only statement made was on background with no member of the White House staff making attaching their name or office to it. I believe Attorney General Jeff Sessions made a comment on August 13th.
spaginal 9y ago
Both groups were behaving violently, and he addressed it exactly as such. Unfortunately it ended with the death of a young woman, but the event didn't go from zero to 100 with the car incident. A lot was happening between the two groups to the lead up. The media wants to build the case that anything against their messaging is extremist, they don't mention Antifa as being a huge instigator in the violence in this event as well, but we don't need them to tell us when we've witnessed it multiple times in California and other cities. Trump in this situation was literally the only adult in the room on this one. Just because he didn't get on board with the manufactured and editorialized talking points doesn't insinuate some nefarious connection to racism and the kkk. It's pretty obvious to most people that he doesn't harbor that ideology. Fact is, in our country we have a right and an expectation to peacefully assemble in the public square, short of calling for insurrection or openly instigating a riot, Americans are allowed to get on their soapbox and other Americans can choose to ignore or listen. What happened in Charlottesville was a travesty for civil rights and a complete mess where multiple violent hate groups in conjunction with an all too eager media put an embarrassing show on display.
- unhumanrights 9y ago
  Fact is, in our country we have a right and an expectation to peacefully assemble in the public square Peacefully. Peacefully. The torches were not a great idea, but I suppose they're not un-peaceful. The shields and the helmets ... well, self-defense is peaceful, right? But the clubs? The guns? Occupying an area with weapons while making threats is not "peaceful assembly".
  - spaginal 9y ago
    I fail to see the violence in torches, regardless, I'm not going to get into specifics of clothing choices, but you can wear a super man outfit, open carry if state laws allow, or put on a dildo helmet if you feel like it. In our country you can protest in costumes if you'd like. Nothing states suit and tie only. If a first response is to assault someone for what they are saying or wearing instead of acting civil, maybe this country and it's constitution isn't for them. This goes for anyone involved.
- 9y ago
cromwellian 9y ago
The "both sides do it" argument misses historical context. As little as 50 years ago, the KKK was still lynching people, and lynched about 4000 African Americans totally according to figures. After they couldn't lynch anymore, the moved on to terrorizing African Americans by burning crosses on people's lawns, and bombing churches. We just ended Jim Crow, an Apartheid system, only a half century ago, and today black people still face intense racism. I see people saying "it's a fringe" yet I can still hear people making racist comments in my own family, none of whom go to Nazi/KKK marches. That historical context makes these bold marches a larger concern, because for every buffoon you see in that march, there are 10 "moderate buffoons", and 100 "moderate moderate buffoons", who walk around thinking because they're not a Nazi or KKK member, and don't own slaves, they're not racist, but who do hold very bias views. These views translate into more convictions for black people faced with juries, they translate into more loan or job applications denied. That's why a re-emboldened KKK/NeoNazi group is a concern. Dailystormer has 300,000 registered accounts, how many does Antifa have? The US has never had a communist revolution, we haven't had people sent to Gulags or "reeducated" for failing to support The Party, or Marxism. But we have sent 150,000 people to camps for the crime of being Japanese. So radical leftists aren't exactly a scary threat, they seem even more buffoonish by far, the dead-enders still calling for communist ownership of everything. So when I read right wing media reports about the so-called history of left-wing violence, I'm not very phased. I would be scared if say, I lived in eastern Europe. But white supremacists are much more realistic threat to the US social fabric because so many people hold racist views, either overtly, or implicitly. Imagine an Islamic theocracy which turned secular over time. Suddenly, religious conservatives are emboldened and start huge marches, and some violent opposition groups emerge. Should the majority of the population be fearful of the opposition, or a retreat back to a religious theocracy which say, 50% of the people in the rural areas aren't opposed to? Historical context matters a lot, and the giant racial scar that still hasn't healed in America means that Antifa and the KKK are no where near equal in concern or guilt for damage to the social fabric.
- chasing 9y ago
  Very well put.

KGIII 9y ago

Didn't he release a statement decrying the racists and suggesting we come together? I've seen it quoted over the past two days. I suppose I could seek an official source.

chasing 9y ago
He did today. Seems like his handlers convinced him: His tweets about it seemed pretty crabby. But over the weekend he definitely came off as completely tone-deaf -- to the point of neo-Nazi groups actually wondering if he was supporting them. I actually don't think that means he supports Nazis. But he's the President. And part of the job is helping the country deal with situations like this.
GeneralMayhem 9y ago
After a literal Nazi literally killed someone at a literal Nazi rally, the President issued a statement in which he said that violence is bad and that both sides were to blame. Two days later, after basically everyone on the planet (including GOP leadership, because even spineless gutter-feeders can tell what an obvious political slam-dunk this is) had had a chance to suggest to him that maybe the literal Nazis literally killing people were maybe a tiny bit more at fault than the woman that they had killed for standing across the street from them and peacefully counter-protesting, he finally issued another statement saying that white supremacists maybe aren't so great after all. You'll forgive me for not putting too much stock in the second statement, given the circumstances.
- ams6110 9y ago
  Not all the counter-protesters were peaceful. Best thing that could have happened would be for everyone to ignore this small fringe wacko group of people. This was instead taken as an opportunity to create a crisis, which could then be used to advance a narrative.
- aaron-lebo 9y ago
  Disclaimer: I'm not defending nazis, murderers, or nazi murderers. Trump's statement seems thoughtless but it's not completely incorrect. For months we've had antifa protesters who have gotten into violent fights with nazis and alt-right supporters at rallies. There's a lot of people very proud of that. At the very least at this rally there were antifa protesters carrying bats and wearing helmets, using pepper spray, etc. Now whether that's justified is another issue, but a lot of us would like it if the fringes of both sides would chill out, before violence they can't control breaks out as it so often can do.
AaronFriel 9y ago
The White House refused to condemn the KKK, Nazis, or white supremacy by name for more than two days. Until the August 14th statement by the President, the only statement made was on background with no member of the White House staff making attaching their name or office to it. I believe Attorney General Jeff Sessions made a comment on August 13th.

spaginal 9y ago

Both groups were behaving violently, and he addressed it exactly as such. Unfortunately it ended with the death of a young woman, but the event didn't go from zero to 100 with the car incident. A lot was happening between the two groups to the lead up. The media wants to build the case that anything against their messaging is extremist, they don't mention Antifa as being a huge instigator in the violence in this event as well, but we don't need them to tell us when we've witnessed it multiple times in California and other cities. Trump in this situation was literally the only adult in the room on this one. Just because he didn't get on board with the manufactured and editorialized talking points doesn't insinuate some nefarious connection to racism and the kkk. It's pretty obvious to most people that he doesn't harbor that ideology. Fact is, in our country we have a right and an expectation to peacefully assemble in the public square, short of calling for insurrection or openly instigating a riot, Americans are allowed to get on their soapbox and other Americans can choose to ignore or listen. What happened in Charlottesville was a travesty for civil rights and a complete mess where multiple violent hate groups in conjunction with an all too eager media put an embarrassing show on display.

unhumanrights 9y ago
Fact is, in our country we have a right and an expectation to peacefully assemble in the public square Peacefully. Peacefully. The torches were not a great idea, but I suppose they're not un-peaceful. The shields and the helmets ... well, self-defense is peaceful, right? But the clubs? The guns? Occupying an area with weapons while making threats is not "peaceful assembly".
- spaginal 9y ago
  I fail to see the violence in torches, regardless, I'm not going to get into specifics of clothing choices, but you can wear a super man outfit, open carry if state laws allow, or put on a dildo helmet if you feel like it. In our country you can protest in costumes if you'd like. Nothing states suit and tie only. If a first response is to assault someone for what they are saying or wearing instead of acting civil, maybe this country and it's constitution isn't for them. This goes for anyone involved.
9y ago

cromwellian 9y ago

The "both sides do it" argument misses historical context. As little as 50 years ago, the KKK was still lynching people, and lynched about 4000 African Americans totally according to figures. After they couldn't lynch anymore, the moved on to terrorizing African Americans by burning crosses on people's lawns, and bombing churches. We just ended Jim Crow, an Apartheid system, only a half century ago, and today black people still face intense racism. I see people saying "it's a fringe" yet I can still hear people making racist comments in my own family, none of whom go to Nazi/KKK marches. That historical context makes these bold marches a larger concern, because for every buffoon you see in that march, there are 10 "moderate buffoons", and 100 "moderate moderate buffoons", who walk around thinking because they're not a Nazi or KKK member, and don't own slaves, they're not racist, but who do hold very bias views. These views translate into more convictions for black people faced with juries, they translate into more loan or job applications denied. That's why a re-emboldened KKK/NeoNazi group is a concern. Dailystormer has 300,000 registered accounts, how many does Antifa have? The US has never had a communist revolution, we haven't had people sent to Gulags or "reeducated" for failing to support The Party, or Marxism. But we have sent 150,000 people to camps for the crime of being Japanese. So radical leftists aren't exactly a scary threat, they seem even more buffoonish by far, the dead-enders still calling for communist ownership of everything. So when I read right wing media reports about the so-called history of left-wing violence, I'm not very phased. I would be scared if say, I lived in eastern Europe. But white supremacists are much more realistic threat to the US social fabric because so many people hold racist views, either overtly, or implicitly. Imagine an Islamic theocracy which turned secular over time. Suddenly, religious conservatives are emboldened and start huge marches, and some violent opposition groups emerge. Should the majority of the population be fearful of the opposition, or a retreat back to a religious theocracy which say, 50% of the people in the rural areas aren't opposed to? Historical context matters a lot, and the giant racial scar that still hasn't healed in America means that Antifa and the KKK are no where near equal in concern or guilt for damage to the social fabric.

chasing 9y ago
Very well put.