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It's just ridiculous to claim that recharging time is not a huge downside to EVs. If I have to drive more than the range of the car, I've now added hours to my
by ams6110 9y ago
It's just ridiculous to claim that recharging time is not a huge downside to EVs. If I have to drive more than the range of the car, I've now added hours to my trip instead of the minutes a liquid fuel refill takes.
I often drive more than the range of a Tesla and certainly more than the range of something like a Leaf, which is why I have not considered buying one.
- greglindahl 9y agoIt takes hours to supercharge a Tesla?
- Spivak 9y agoAccording to Tesla it takes 1h15m for a full charge. If you don't happen to be around a supercharger and have to use a 240v outlet you're looking at 9.5h for a full charge.
- sowbug 9y agoWhat's especially cool about this is that most homes in the U.S. have a 240v outlet in or near the garage, meaning it's easy to recharge while visiting friends or family.
- azinman2 9y agoIs that really true? What for? I'm remodeling a house and putting in 240 just for the dryer an an unusual French range. Why would I need that in the garage? I certainly won't have that long an extension cord.
- newman8r 9y agoyou richer. us poor folk quite often put our laundry machines in the garage.
- azinman2 9y agoStill not convinced that there's an extra, easily accessible 240v plug that I can just plug my car into across most of my friends/family. Certainly no one in an apartment building!
- newman8r 9y agoyeah, unplugging a community dryer at an apartment building to charge your fancy car probably wouldn't go over too well anyway. someone needs to create self-driving mobile supercharging units - just call one up to meet you somewhere
- greglindahl 9y ago"fancy car" -- EVs are available in all price ranges?
- newman8r 9y agoyeah I was mostly joking, although I couldn't afford one. The last vehicle I bought was a 1993 Ford Explorer - it was worth it because I got to learn how to replace an alternator. Crackheads eventually stole it. Next vehicle will be a pre 1996 mercedes turbodiesel so I don't have to get it smogged in california (poor people problems)
- stickfigure 9y agoFor your lathe and vertical mill :-)
- azinman2 9y agoI want your garage.
- SAI_Peregrinus 9y agoI'd rather have 208V (three phase) for that. Makes it easier to set up a variable frequency drive.
- sowbug 9y agoDryers are often in the garage or in the small room adjacent to the garage that we called the "service porch" when I was a kid. I think it's because the garage is a good place for the main junction box (near the street, where the main power lines are, but indoors so creepers don't mess with it), and since 240-volt wiring is thick and expensive, it's cheaper to put any 240-volt outlets near the junction box. QED.
- azinman2 9y agoSo I'm going to know to unplug a dryer and expect my friends to be cool with that? And that plug is plain out in the visible, easily accessible areas and not hidden behind a heavy dryer?
- daveFNbuck 9y agoPeople often don't have a dryer in the garage, but it's common enough that they'll have the plug there anyway.
- tossaway1 9y agoI've owned half a dozen houses including new construction and never had a 240 outlet in the garage.
- sowbug 9y agoI wonder if it's a regional thing. My experience is US West Coast. The dryer is a source of waste heat, which out here is usually undesirable, so it makes more sense to put it in an extremity of the house where the heat can easily escape. I could imagine that other areas of the country might be more likely to view extra heat as a good thing.
- Baeocystin 9y agoIt's dirt simple to add, as the garage is usually where the distribution box is anyway. And lots of tools (and now, electric cars) can take advantage of 240.
- azinman2 9y agoBut the theory was that it's easy to charge when visiting friends/family because they'll already have it.
- Baeocystin 9y agoOf the houses I've lived in, and the ones of my friends, I'd say ~75% of them have 240 outlets in the garage that were there from the start, usually for the dryer. FWIW.
- Lio 9y ago> And lots of tools (and now, electric cars) can take advantage of 240. Off topic: That's interesting to know. In Europe (UK) where 240V (well more like 230V these days) is the standard, it's not uncommon to see professional workmen using step-down boxes and 110V power tools for safety reasons.
- jakobegger 9y agoReally? I have never heard of that in Austria. All power tools use 230V. I've never seen or heard of a 110V tool that's on sale in Europe. I could imagine that some professional might use a specialized tool in a niche where only a 110V version is available -- but I've never heard of that either. The safety aspect sounds odd -- 230V is not that dangerous, especially considering that ground fault circuit breakers are mandatory. Accidentally touching a live 230V wire doesn't really hurt that much.
- Lio 9y agoI guess it might just be a UK health and safety thing. Like you I've touched 230v a couple of times as a kid but can't say it's exactly pleasant. This blog post lists the reasons professional builders in the UK could use 230v and an RCD but generally dont. https://www.its.co.uk/blog/buying-guides/what-is-110v-do-we-need-it/ https://www.its.co.uk/blog/buying-guides/what-is-110v-do-we-...
- ams6110 9y agoHey Jim, would you please unplug your clothes dryer so I can charge my car?
- greglindahl 9y agoSuperchargers are not used to fully charge cars, because it's faster to stay lower in the battery -- supercharging is very slow for the last 20%. For this reason, superchargers are placed closer together than the maximum range of the car. So no, supercharging does not take hours.
- sowbug 9y agoIt takes about 20-30 minutes in most cases. The last 10% of the battery takes a loooong time to complete, and it's bad for battery health, so most Tesla owners on roadtrips treat 90% as full and stop charging at that point. It ends up being about the same time it takes to visit the restroom and grab a snack, so there's not much of a time difference vs. any other trip where you're not trying to set a land speed record.
- ams6110 9y agoAssuming your need for charging coincides with being near a Supercharger. Outside of a few major cities, this would be unlikely.
- greglindahl 9y agoAs a Tesla owner who occasionally drives long distance, I've always had superchargers on my route and it never takes "hours" to use them. Keep in mind that most people mostly don't drive most places -- they drive relatively popular routes between cities, which are well-covered by the supercharger system.
- ams6110 9y agoThere are two superchargers in my state, according to tesla.com. And neither are anywhere near my normal driving destinations. There is a gas station at nearly every interstate exit anywhere.
- greglindahl 9y agoAnd what's your estimate of the % of the US population who's in your situation?
- ams6110 9y agoWell, at least the entire population of my state.
- greglindahl 9y agoSo, you're going to complain endlessly about this being an important issue without any interest in quantifying the issue. Gotcha. Great HN discussion topic.
- alphapapa 9y agoIs your attitude typical of Tesla owners?
- sowbug 9y agoYour driving habits are atypical. Charging a Tesla at home every night or so is easy for those with typical driving habits. In fact, starting every morning with a full tank, rather than the approximately daily gas station visits that you say you often need, is a huge upside.
- yladiz 9y agoJust because those patterns are atypical doesn't mean it's not a valid concern. This problem will stop more people than you would expect from getting an EV. Also many people in major cities do not have the space to charge their car, mostly because of only street parking available, so there does need to be a separate solution besides charging at home.
- randyrand 9y agoOn top of that it's rather common to drive somewhere and leave your car overnight where there won't be a charger. 1. driving to a relatives 2. driving somewhere for vacation
- sowbug 9y agoThere's another thread about destination charging. My family's experience is that there's a dryer plug or at least a 120V plug within reach at homes we visit, or else a Supercharger less than ~100 miles (round trip + driving around town) from the hotel where we're staying. There are also Chargepoint stations in many public parking lots, but we've never had to use them. It's not as convenient today as gas stations. But Tesla has been adding Superchargers quickly.
- greglindahl 9y agoOne atypical thing is having chargers available for street parking. One can only hope it becomes more popular.
- sowbug 9y agoYeah, if you park on the street where you live, an EV will be a burden. I've seen random extension cords plugged into cars on streets in San Francisco, but that's a hack.
- donjoe 9y ago...you could consider renting a combustor in case of long distance trips. Furthermore, it'll reduce your vehicle's abrasion and even save you money by doing so: driving a combustor costs ~$0.50/mile (http://exchange.aaa.com/automotive/driving-costs/#.WZKZDt9NzCI http://exchange.aaa.com/automotive/driving-costs/#.WZKZDt9Nz...). Let's consider a trip of 300 miles. It'll cost you about $150 with your own combustor. Renting a car costs about $50/day (or cheaper, depending on which car to go for). Gas consumption will add another ~$35 which leaves you with a total of $85/300 miles. Just curious: how often do you exceed the 100 miles range?
- marrs 9y agoCome quick, your father's been rushed to hospital! Can it wait until tomorrow? The car rental place doesn't open until 8.
- dagw 9y agoI agree with your idea in general (and did similar math myself before buying a car), but I disagree with your numbers. I never drive 300+ miles just to turn around and drive home the next day. If I'm driving 300+ miles it's generally to spend some time at the place I'm driving to, and if renting I have to pay that time as well.
- Tade0 9y agoLast year I did 30 000km doing mostly 1500km, one-day marathons - I still do this route a few times a year, but now it includes a stop for the night, because this mode of traveling did a few bad things to my eyes. I always did at worst a single one-hour stop, because it's simply unhealthy not to do so. I calculated that on this route in a Chevy Bolt I would have to do four stops, and in a 85kWh(or better) Tesla - three. That's three and two more stops respectively. On one hand that's a lot, on the other I could simply take a nap then or get something to eat. My point is: it's entirely doable with an EV today. Even better: I've seen people do it.