6 ms·

I'm still pretty young yet I've experienced benefits solely from my gender. My sister is smarter than me and better at math and physics than me. I was invited

by Lon7 9y ago

I'm still pretty young yet I've experienced benefits solely from my gender. My sister is smarter than me and better at math and physics than me. I was invited by my grade school to go to robotics camps over the summer, she wasn't. I was given special permission to take computer science courses not offered by our highschool, she wasn't. I was encouraged to to go into engineering by our guidance Councillor, she wasn't. My dad wanted me to go into engineering, he didn't really want her to. I didn't realize that any of this was happening at the time. It wasn't until years later that I was talking to my sister that she explained the countless opportunities and support that I had and she didn't. This all happened in a well off neighborhood in Canada. So is it really any surprise that I'm the highly paid engineer while she is a school teacher barely scraping by? The status quo still benefits people based on race and gender.

leereeves 9y ago
I can't speak about Canada, but in the US, personal anecdotes aside, 60% of college graduates are women. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/storyline/wp/2014/12/11/women-are-dominating-men-at-college-blame-sexism/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/storyline/wp/2014/12/11/... And young women earn more than young men, on average. http://content.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2015274,00.html http://content.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2015274... I'm sorry about what happened to your sister, but that's not the norm.
- unityByFreedom 9y ago
  > I can't speak about Canada, but in the US, personal anecdotes aside, 60% of college graduates are women. The gender gaps under discussion are specific to computer science [1]. That more and more women have been (a) going to college and (b) getting into STEM with the exception of computer science is why this is so interesting to debate. [1] http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2014/10/21/357629765/when-women-stopped-coding http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2014/10/21/357629765/when-...
  - leereeves 9y ago
    I'm aware that some people are trying to limit the scope of the discussion, and yet, I wonder why no one cares about the young men who are now at a disadvantage.
    - malyk 9y ago
      Young men aren't at a disadvantage at all. They are still greatly advantaged, just to a very slightly lesser degree than before. It's like a basketball game where a team was ahead by 45 points at the half. Now they are ahead by "only" 25 points, but somehow they are now at a disadvantage? Certainly they aren't winning by as much, but they are still winning by a significant margin. That's the situation we are in in the tech world.
      - leereeves 9y ago
        And in the larger world? What data are you relying on that suggests young men are advantaged? I've just cited two very significant statistics that suggest otherwise.
        unityByFreedom 9y ago
        Leadership positions are dominated by men. Young men have a higher likelihood of landing those roles. That could also explain why fewer men attend college. They don't need as many credentials to land higher ranked positions.
        manfredo 9y ago
        Elite positions are disproportionately occupied by men, but so are the positions at the lowest rungs on the social ladder. Men make up 93% of chief executive officers at large companies[1], but they also make up about the same percentage of the prison population (91%) [2]. Men disproportionately occupy both ends of success and failure. On the note of education, men may not need credentials to achieve comparatively well paying jobs, but this comes with other trade-offs. For instance men make up 93% of occupational deaths[3] in the U.S. The tendency for to reach better paying jobs without the same educational attainment may not necessarily a sign of privilege so much as social pressure to take high-risk jobs for more pay. Ultimately, things like privilege are subjective and heavily based on moral weightings. Does being more likely to be killed on the job offset a higher pay? Is being more likely to end up as a CEO offset being more likely to end up behind bars? These are moral - not factual - questions, so there's as many right answers are there are people on this planet. [1] http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/women-in-leadership-fortune_us_57cfe23ce4b06a74c9f191cd http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/women-in-leadership-fort... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States#Gender https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_St... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupational_fatality#Gender https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupational_fatality#Gender
therebedragons 9y ago
Why did she become a teacher? I mean, the grades difference required to be a teacher vs CS are vast. How does that happen? My mum went through this - she finished 1st in a state in Australia in English, and top 100 in History, and became an English teacher. Thing is, that was 1960s. She taught at a selective school (academic?) and NONE, ZERO of her students under similar circumstances would choose english teaching over being a lawyer. Now, my mother also taught with an ex-lawyer who hated it and became a teacher, but that was not because she was not given opportunities, but because she hated the law industry. I wonder again how was your sister was steered down this path?
SophosQ 9y ago
The question is where must the solution be applied ? Is it at the companies where they taken in under-representes groups ? Or Is it at the grassroots level such as by teaching parenting to students in college to be more aware of the bias they may've whilst upbringing their child. ( Similar to Diversity-training) My point is that instead of giving them a relatively easier seat at the workplace, we must strive to make their paths easier thereby ensuring that the most talent people end up where they want to. I'm actually quite surprised that the councillor didn't encourage your sister for they're usually trained to be aware of such biases and be neutral in their disposition towards every student albeit it's difficult , they're usually better at it.

by Lon7 9y ago

leereeves 9y ago

I can't speak about Canada, but in the US, personal anecdotes aside, 60% of college graduates are women. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/storyline/wp/2014/12/11/women-are-dominating-men-at-college-blame-sexism/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/storyline/wp/2014/12/11/... And young women earn more than young men, on average. http://content.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2015274,00.html http://content.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2015274... I'm sorry about what happened to your sister, but that's not the norm.

unityByFreedom 9y ago
> I can't speak about Canada, but in the US, personal anecdotes aside, 60% of college graduates are women. The gender gaps under discussion are specific to computer science [1]. That more and more women have been (a) going to college and (b) getting into STEM with the exception of computer science is why this is so interesting to debate. [1] http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2014/10/21/357629765/when-women-stopped-coding http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2014/10/21/357629765/when-...
- leereeves 9y ago
  I'm aware that some people are trying to limit the scope of the discussion, and yet, I wonder why no one cares about the young men who are now at a disadvantage.
  - malyk 9y ago
    Young men aren't at a disadvantage at all. They are still greatly advantaged, just to a very slightly lesser degree than before. It's like a basketball game where a team was ahead by 45 points at the half. Now they are ahead by "only" 25 points, but somehow they are now at a disadvantage? Certainly they aren't winning by as much, but they are still winning by a significant margin. That's the situation we are in in the tech world.
    - leereeves 9y ago
      And in the larger world? What data are you relying on that suggests young men are advantaged? I've just cited two very significant statistics that suggest otherwise.
      - unityByFreedom 9y ago
        Leadership positions are dominated by men. Young men have a higher likelihood of landing those roles. That could also explain why fewer men attend college. They don't need as many credentials to land higher ranked positions.
        manfredo 9y ago
        Elite positions are disproportionately occupied by men, but so are the positions at the lowest rungs on the social ladder. Men make up 93% of chief executive officers at large companies[1], but they also make up about the same percentage of the prison population (91%) [2]. Men disproportionately occupy both ends of success and failure. On the note of education, men may not need credentials to achieve comparatively well paying jobs, but this comes with other trade-offs. For instance men make up 93% of occupational deaths[3] in the U.S. The tendency for to reach better paying jobs without the same educational attainment may not necessarily a sign of privilege so much as social pressure to take high-risk jobs for more pay. Ultimately, things like privilege are subjective and heavily based on moral weightings. Does being more likely to be killed on the job offset a higher pay? Is being more likely to end up as a CEO offset being more likely to end up behind bars? These are moral - not factual - questions, so there's as many right answers are there are people on this planet. [1] http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/women-in-leadership-fortune_us_57cfe23ce4b06a74c9f191cd http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/women-in-leadership-fort... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States#Gender https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_St... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupational_fatality#Gender https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupational_fatality#Gender

therebedragons 9y ago

Why did she become a teacher? I mean, the grades difference required to be a teacher vs CS are vast. How does that happen? My mum went through this - she finished 1st in a state in Australia in English, and top 100 in History, and became an English teacher. Thing is, that was 1960s. She taught at a selective school (academic?) and NONE, ZERO of her students under similar circumstances would choose english teaching over being a lawyer. Now, my mother also taught with an ex-lawyer who hated it and became a teacher, but that was not because she was not given opportunities, but because she hated the law industry. I wonder again how was your sister was steered down this path?

SophosQ 9y ago

The question is where must the solution be applied ? Is it at the companies where they taken in under-representes groups ? Or Is it at the grassroots level such as by teaching parenting to students in college to be more aware of the bias they may've whilst upbringing their child. ( Similar to Diversity-training) My point is that instead of giving them a relatively easier seat at the workplace, we must strive to make their paths easier thereby ensuring that the most talent people end up where they want to. I'm actually quite surprised that the councillor didn't encourage your sister for they're usually trained to be aware of such biases and be neutral in their disposition towards every student albeit it's difficult , they're usually better at it.