4 ms·

This doesn't really make sense, at least from how I've read your comment, once details come into play though. What does being 'less screwed up' actually look li

This doesn't really make sense, at least from how I've read your comment, once details come into play though. What does being 'less screwed up' actually look like at an individual level? Beyond not physically/verbally molesting my co-workers and not deceiving/resisting HR if there's an investigation into another co-worker's behavior I can only so much.

chongli 9y ago
Exactly. If the boss is the one doing the harassing there's almost nothing you can do. I suppose you could be a witness for the harassment lawsuit. Actually attempting to police your boss is likely to just get you fired.
KirinDave 9y ago
Well, you could start by supporting women and their opportunity in the field. You could corroborate and help report cases of sexual harassment. You could help predominantly male offices self-police on inappropriate workplace behavior (less talking about dicks, for example). You can help establish salary baselines so women can identify unfair behavior. Those are somewhat passive. If you want to be a net positive instead of just not a net negative in this equation, offering mentoring services to women in your field who may have had less opportunity than you is a good idea. Many organizations are eager to offer those opportunities but short of trustworthy professionals willing to donate time. There is of course other simple things business owners can do. For example, not considering nursing rooms a luxury. Making time in people's schedules for child care (which affects many more women in the west than men, but still benefits men). There's also benefit leveling. For example, leveling paternity and maternity leave means that women are less "special" in these benefit packages, which helps prevent unfair punishment to them. There really is quite a lot people can do.
- PeanutCurry 9y ago
  A lot of these are good suggestions but they seem more like management level decisions than decisions that fall on the broader category of 'everyone in SV' which is what it seemed like you were discussing when you talked about SV bearing the responsibility. Corroborating cases of sexual harassment is definitely something everyone can and should do but that's hardly a passive activity with the same being true for self-policing. On the other hand, things like mentoring require a non-trivial amount of labor that seems unfair to call morally obligatory and everything you listed under the business owner section isn't really possible for non-owners. That's not to say everything is fine the way it is obviously, but lumping everyone together implies an equal capacity for action when most of the highest impact actions you mentioned require authority that the majority of employees don't have.
  - KirinDave 9y ago
    The majority of my suggestions are for the rank and file. But, lots of engineering types end up with direct or indirect power in management.
    - PeanutCurry 9y ago
      The ones with direct power probably seized it with the support of their company's mechanized infantry.
      - KirinDave 9y ago
        golfclap

chongli 9y ago

Exactly. If the boss is the one doing the harassing there's almost nothing you can do. I suppose you could be a witness for the harassment lawsuit. Actually attempting to police your boss is likely to just get you fired.

KirinDave 9y ago

Well, you could start by supporting women and their opportunity in the field. You could corroborate and help report cases of sexual harassment. You could help predominantly male offices self-police on inappropriate workplace behavior (less talking about dicks, for example). You can help establish salary baselines so women can identify unfair behavior. Those are somewhat passive. If you want to be a net positive instead of just not a net negative in this equation, offering mentoring services to women in your field who may have had less opportunity than you is a good idea. Many organizations are eager to offer those opportunities but short of trustworthy professionals willing to donate time. There is of course other simple things business owners can do. For example, not considering nursing rooms a luxury. Making time in people's schedules for child care (which affects many more women in the west than men, but still benefits men). There's also benefit leveling. For example, leveling paternity and maternity leave means that women are less "special" in these benefit packages, which helps prevent unfair punishment to them. There really is quite a lot people can do.

PeanutCurry 9y ago
A lot of these are good suggestions but they seem more like management level decisions than decisions that fall on the broader category of 'everyone in SV' which is what it seemed like you were discussing when you talked about SV bearing the responsibility. Corroborating cases of sexual harassment is definitely something everyone can and should do but that's hardly a passive activity with the same being true for self-policing. On the other hand, things like mentoring require a non-trivial amount of labor that seems unfair to call morally obligatory and everything you listed under the business owner section isn't really possible for non-owners. That's not to say everything is fine the way it is obviously, but lumping everyone together implies an equal capacity for action when most of the highest impact actions you mentioned require authority that the majority of employees don't have.
- KirinDave 9y ago
  The majority of my suggestions are for the rank and file. But, lots of engineering types end up with direct or indirect power in management.
  - PeanutCurry 9y ago
    The ones with direct power probably seized it with the support of their company's mechanized infantry.
    - KirinDave 9y ago
      golfclap