3 ms·

It's not about moral outrage, heh. I guess the US is really a child when it comes to this, once the continent was laid to waste we probably can see eye to eye o

It's not about moral outrage, heh. I guess the US is really a child when it comes to this, once the continent was laid to waste we probably can see eye to eye on this much better. Until then, did you deal with real Nazis before? I did. That guy who wrote a response and then deleted it, probably because they weren't anonymous, did. Anyone else? Anyone coming at this from the street instead of an ivory tower? Ever got chased by a group of Nazis? Stuff like "kill all Jews" is just a mating dance for them, the real talk, and the real weapon collection, happens behind closed doors. So, did anyone at least actually deal with even the TIP of that iceberg, before they're trying to tell me how I can defend myself?

nv-vn 9y ago
How is silencing someone's speech a form of defending yourself? And frankly, as someone who had multiple family members killed during the holocaust, trying to shame someone into agreement with you based on "encountering real Nazis" is ridiculous. Saying that the person who had to delete their response because of what "Nazis" said to them is even worse. You cannot compare people making mean comments or even threats against you on an online forum to a systematic genocide and denial of all human rights committed by your government on the basis of religion, sexual orientation, or ethnicity. Fearing for you life because a dictator has established a mass system designed for your extermination is a very different reality than how you feel after sharing an unpopular opinion under your real identity.
- thinkfurther 9y ago
  > How is silencing someone's speech a form of defending yourself? By not letting people fucking recruit en masse, that's how. > as someone who had multiple family members killed during the holocaust Did you yourself ever try to actually discuss with actual Nazis, yes or no? > Saying that the person who had to delete their response because of what "Nazis" said to them is even worse. What? Where did I say that? I said they deleted their comment, probably because they realized they could be identified. Here's two bits of their comment (I wanted to reply to it that's why I had it open in another tab) > when you try to discuss with Nazis, they will jump you and beat your ass and give the old college try to killing you if they are given a chance. Then they describe how they actually had Nazis try that on them, and finally > That's why I'm entirely and unflinchingly okay with being loud and eating the downvotes and the flags (oh no, downvotes and flags) when these people pop their heads up here. They can't try to kill me here. But they would if they could. Caping up for a societal autoimmune disease, the kind that infects your structures and subverts them so that they can kill you, is profoundly, profoundly unwise. Your "ancestors" don't give you the right to just go on about how someone is a wuss about "sharing an unpopular opinion" by virtue of making up shit nobody said. And I'm also not trying to "shame" anyone into anything, you're projecting. I'm asking you, did you actually try what you suggest on the real deal, because so far the one person who isn't a virgin agrees with my opinion about sex, so to speak.
  - thinkfurther 9y ago
    > Did you yourself ever try to actually discuss with actual Nazis, yes or no? That's what I thought. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXszx68uhsY&t=3m50s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXszx68uhsY&t=3m50s
- thinkfurther 9y ago
  Another thing; I was actually going to bed (I hope everybody is super ashamed now) but booted up my puter again to translate this: > Der wahre Grund für die unabwendbare, prinzipielle Überlegenheit aller totalitären Propaganda über die Propaganda aller anderen Parteien oder Regierungen ist, daß ihr Inhalt - jedenfalls für die Mitglieder der Bewegung und die Bevölkerung eines totalitären Landes - nichts mehr mit Meinungen zu tun hat, über die man streiten könnte, sondern zu einem ebenso unangreifbar realen Element ihres täglichen Lebens geworden ist, wie daß zwei mal zwei vier ist. Die Vorteile einer Propaganda, die sich niemals nur auf sich selbst und ihre Argumente verläßt, sondern zu der von vornherein "die Gewalt der Organisation hinzutritt", in der sie durch Gewalt ständig und unmittelbar verwirklicht, was sie sagt, sind so außerordentlich, daß es fast schon eine gefährliche Unterschätzung ihrer Möglichkeiten ist, sie noch mit dem Namen Propaganda zu belegen. Alle bloßen Argumente gegen sie, die ja aus einer Wirklichkeit stammen, welche die Bewegung ohnehin zu ändern verspricht, sind bereits im vorhinein dadurch disqualifiziert, daß die Massen die wirkliche Welt weder akzeptieren können noch akzeptieren wollen. Totalitäre Propaganda ist keine Propaganda im üblichen Sinn und kann daher nicht durch Gegenpropaganda widerlegt oder bekämpft werden. Sie ist Teil der totalitären Welt und wird nur mit ihr zusammen vernichtet. -- Hannah Arendt, "Elemente und Ursprünge totaler Herrschaft", page 537 I'm dog tired, but here's my attempt: > The real reason for the unavoidable superiority in principle of all totalitarian propaganda against the propaganda of all other parties or governments is, that its content - at least for the members of the movement and the population of a totalitarian country - has nothing to do with opinions about which one could argue, but have become an equally invincible real element of their daily life, just like two and two making four. The advantage of a propaganda which never depends on itself and its arguments, but is ab initio "joined by the violence [or power] of the organization", in which it manifests through violence continually and directly what it claims, are so extraordinary, that it is nearly a dangerous underestimation of its possibilities to still call it propaganda. All mere arguments against it, which stem from a reality which the movement promises to change anyway, are already disqualified because the masses can't and don't want to accept the real world. Totalitarian propaganda isn't propaganda in the usual sense and therefore can't be fought or refuted with counter propaganda. It is part of the totalitarian world and gets destroyed only together with it. I'm not saying she would support anything else I said, but she did write the above, in a book that should be mandatory reading but is not. Those who have ears and all that. Good night and good luck.

nv-vn 9y ago

How is silencing someone's speech a form of defending yourself? And frankly, as someone who had multiple family members killed during the holocaust, trying to shame someone into agreement with you based on "encountering real Nazis" is ridiculous. Saying that the person who had to delete their response because of what "Nazis" said to them is even worse. You cannot compare people making mean comments or even threats against you on an online forum to a systematic genocide and denial of all human rights committed by your government on the basis of religion, sexual orientation, or ethnicity. Fearing for you life because a dictator has established a mass system designed for your extermination is a very different reality than how you feel after sharing an unpopular opinion under your real identity.

thinkfurther 9y ago
> How is silencing someone's speech a form of defending yourself? By not letting people fucking recruit en masse, that's how. > as someone who had multiple family members killed during the holocaust Did you yourself ever try to actually discuss with actual Nazis, yes or no? > Saying that the person who had to delete their response because of what "Nazis" said to them is even worse. What? Where did I say that? I said they deleted their comment, probably because they realized they could be identified. Here's two bits of their comment (I wanted to reply to it that's why I had it open in another tab) > when you try to discuss with Nazis, they will jump you and beat your ass and give the old college try to killing you if they are given a chance. Then they describe how they actually had Nazis try that on them, and finally > That's why I'm entirely and unflinchingly okay with being loud and eating the downvotes and the flags (oh no, downvotes and flags) when these people pop their heads up here. They can't try to kill me here. But they would if they could. Caping up for a societal autoimmune disease, the kind that infects your structures and subverts them so that they can kill you, is profoundly, profoundly unwise. Your "ancestors" don't give you the right to just go on about how someone is a wuss about "sharing an unpopular opinion" by virtue of making up shit nobody said. And I'm also not trying to "shame" anyone into anything, you're projecting. I'm asking you, did you actually try what you suggest on the real deal, because so far the one person who isn't a virgin agrees with my opinion about sex, so to speak.
- thinkfurther 9y ago
  > Did you yourself ever try to actually discuss with actual Nazis, yes or no? That's what I thought. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXszx68uhsY&t=3m50s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXszx68uhsY&t=3m50s
thinkfurther 9y ago
Another thing; I was actually going to bed (I hope everybody is super ashamed now) but booted up my puter again to translate this: > Der wahre Grund für die unabwendbare, prinzipielle Überlegenheit aller totalitären Propaganda über die Propaganda aller anderen Parteien oder Regierungen ist, daß ihr Inhalt - jedenfalls für die Mitglieder der Bewegung und die Bevölkerung eines totalitären Landes - nichts mehr mit Meinungen zu tun hat, über die man streiten könnte, sondern zu einem ebenso unangreifbar realen Element ihres täglichen Lebens geworden ist, wie daß zwei mal zwei vier ist. Die Vorteile einer Propaganda, die sich niemals nur auf sich selbst und ihre Argumente verläßt, sondern zu der von vornherein "die Gewalt der Organisation hinzutritt", in der sie durch Gewalt ständig und unmittelbar verwirklicht, was sie sagt, sind so außerordentlich, daß es fast schon eine gefährliche Unterschätzung ihrer Möglichkeiten ist, sie noch mit dem Namen Propaganda zu belegen. Alle bloßen Argumente gegen sie, die ja aus einer Wirklichkeit stammen, welche die Bewegung ohnehin zu ändern verspricht, sind bereits im vorhinein dadurch disqualifiziert, daß die Massen die wirkliche Welt weder akzeptieren können noch akzeptieren wollen. Totalitäre Propaganda ist keine Propaganda im üblichen Sinn und kann daher nicht durch Gegenpropaganda widerlegt oder bekämpft werden. Sie ist Teil der totalitären Welt und wird nur mit ihr zusammen vernichtet. -- Hannah Arendt, "Elemente und Ursprünge totaler Herrschaft", page 537 I'm dog tired, but here's my attempt: > The real reason for the unavoidable superiority in principle of all totalitarian propaganda against the propaganda of all other parties or governments is, that its content - at least for the members of the movement and the population of a totalitarian country - has nothing to do with opinions about which one could argue, but have become an equally invincible real element of their daily life, just like two and two making four. The advantage of a propaganda which never depends on itself and its arguments, but is ab initio "joined by the violence [or power] of the organization", in which it manifests through violence continually and directly what it claims, are so extraordinary, that it is nearly a dangerous underestimation of its possibilities to still call it propaganda. All mere arguments against it, which stem from a reality which the movement promises to change anyway, are already disqualified because the masses can't and don't want to accept the real world. Totalitarian propaganda isn't propaganda in the usual sense and therefore can't be fought or refuted with counter propaganda. It is part of the totalitarian world and gets destroyed only together with it. I'm not saying she would support anything else I said, but she did write the above, in a book that should be mandatory reading but is not. Those who have ears and all that. Good night and good luck.