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DJI adds an offline mode to its drones for clients with ‘sensitive operations’
- eps 9y agoApparently it's "offline" as in "not phoning home to the company's headquarters at will." Not "offline" as in "radio silent during a flight."
- forgotmysn 9y agowell it would be kinda difficult to control a remote-controlled drone if it's completely radio silent.
- eps 9y agoDJIs can fly along a programmed path.
- forgotmysn 9y agotrue, touche.
- baddox 9y agoGPS signals are radio waves, but they are read-only.
- leggomylibro 9y agoTell that to the truckers who accidentally cause panic in a metropolitan area when they forget to turn off the jammer they use for fudging hours and miles. Those signals are very weak by the time they get down here, and easy to override. It's just illegal.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- Nexxxeh 9y agoI wonder what level of accuracy they could manage with dead reckoning?
- serf 9y agoif you're thinking about how to get a drone to determine its' place in space without radio make sure to consider celestial navigation.[0] The SR-71 Blackbird used a navigation system that incorporated both methods (inertia and star-watching).[1] [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celestial_navigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celestial_navigation [1]: https://timeandnavigation.si.edu/multimedia-asset/nortronics-nas-14v2-astroinertial-navigation-system https://timeandnavigation.si.edu/multimedia-asset/nortronics...
- ethbro 9y agoI remember we had a star tracking device come to us via some donation source for a prototype satellite build when I was in college. About as big as my fist, from memory. Unfortunately, it was Russian and the only documentation accompanying it was one page, in Russian. But there are certainly CotS parts that you can buy to provide a star-tracked location data source.
- njharman 9y agoUnless there is no wind at all, pretty poor.
- aw3c2 9y agoEven then, sensor drift is a huge problem.
- milankragujevic 9y agoCouldn't it use a camera pointed towards the ground and track objects on the ground to measure absolute movement in space? Like Parrot's drones do. Probably DJI drones as well, since they have ground-facing camera(s).
- notatoad 9y agoOh? https://www.newscientist.com/article/2143499-ships-fooled-in-gps-spoofing-attack-suggest-russian-cyberweapon/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/2143499-ships-fooled-in...
- baddox 9y agoOf course, for the drone, I meant.
- tlrobinson 9y agoWhy aren't GPS signals signed?
- 05 9y ago* Actual information is derived from phase shift between signals, not their contents * Signals are below noise level, you need to know their exact contents to be able to receive them * Military modification is encrypted, and it can help against some sorts of spoofing. * To spoof, you need to - receive signals from at least 4 sats (e.g. using a 2d phased array you can get pretty good directional sensitivity without knowing the contents of the signal). - retransmit the signals to the target, time-shifting each signal to achieve the required time+coordinate spoofing delta. - jam the original signals with a known noise source you can subtract from your own received signal to avoid jamming yourself ;)
- pjc50 9y agoThere used to be a separate encrypted channel for military use ("selective availability"). There's a replacement, secret system which is supposed to provide the same anti-spoofing for NATO military uses only. The data rate of GPS is surprisingly low. Furthermore, you can spoof someone's position by relaying genuine signals provided you alter their relative time delay.
- scrps 9y agoI don't know if the secret service is using a modified DJI or their own in-house design but they were testing a non-RF teathered drone: https://www.dhs.gov/publication/dhsussspia-020-united-states-secret-service-counter-surveillance-division-unmanned https://www.dhs.gov/publication/dhsussspia-020-united-states...
- est 9y ago> phoning home to the company's headquarters Because the Chinese always setup servers directly in their headquarter offices? Seriously you guys need to drop the arrogant attitude. DJI servers were on AWS and Linode.
- pj_mukh 9y agoI wonder if they have an "Application Process" for who is allowed to go offline. Their biggest problem has been drones straying into places they shouldn't. Airport locations can be stored offline but emergency FAA drone "blackouts" are relayed online. What happens when someone uses this to document a protest in DJI's native China. Hmm? Edit: To make it clear, I've always had a love-hate relationship with this form of DRM.
- forkLding 9y agoProtests in china are regulated by the government similar to other protests in USA where you usually notify local governments about the land you are on and have to ask for approval in some manner. If protests are approved, then they can be held which is what happens in China. Thus documenting a protest in China that is legal would not be censored on Chinese media, however documenting an illegal protest and then broadcasting it on Chinese media is pretty risky as the government can crackdown on it much easier. Moreover, Chinese government can censor footage about protests if it goes against their wishes so in the end it doesn't really matter.
- boombip 9y agoDoes the Chinese government often approve such protests? What would they allow their citizens to protest?
- jeron 9y agoI don't think there's really approval for protests, but "The majority of protests in China concern local grievances, such as the corruption of county- or township-level government or Communist Party officials, exploitation by employers, excessive taxation, and so on. Protests targeting specific, local grievances, and where citizens propose actionable remedies, are more likely to succeed than alternative forms of protests." source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protest_and_dissent_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protest_and_dissent_in_China
- 9y ago
- samfisher83 9y agoFor the price I don't know if DJI has any competition. The p3s is about 350 bucks and I don't think there is any drone at that price point that is competitive. Maybe the xiaomi drone, but they don't have US warranty. 3DR is out of drones. The other brands just don't work as well with the same range, gimbal etc. There is really no competition to the Mavic.
- packetslave 9y agoGoPro Karma competes quite favorably with the Mavic, especially since the Karma has the added benefit that you can remove the Hero5 Black and/or the gyroscopic stabilizer and use them on the ground.
- forgotmysn 9y agodidn't the karmas all get recalled?
- detaro 9y agoyes. And have been back on the market for half a year or so.
- forgotmysn 9y agooh wow ok
- hrrsn 9y agoNot in the size department though. The Karma is leagues larger.
- tangue 9y agoThe Karma is controlled via wifi (like the parrot bebop) which limits the range and the image is a bit to distorted imho. It's a good machine but it's no match for the Mavic
- dchuk 9y ago
- valuearb 9y agoDoes anyone think that the NSA doesn't already have surveillance software embedded in DJI firmware?
- mulmen 9y agoDo they even need to? If we assume the network is compromised and that the third party servers are compromised or can be with a warrant why bother owning the drones?
- jjwiseman 9y agoDJI is a Chinese company.
- valuearb 9y agoExactly my point. The NSA is only allowed to work overseas.
- SeoxyS 9y agoYou think the NSA can convince a mainland Chinese company to install backdoors for Americans? Seriously dubious…
- jacquesm 9y agoNo, but they might be able to convince the guy that flashes the firmware. That would be cheaper anyway.
- ahugebeach 9y agoDrones seem like they need to be more regulated maybe by the FAA.
- thmsths 9y agoI am mostly in favor of the current status quo for drones but I would be interested in hearing your arguments in favor of more regulation.
- seanp2k2 9y agoHobbyists have had FPV in RC planes and helis for 10+ years, but it's easy now so everyone is doing it. You don't need to know how to solder, program transmitters, cobble together TX/RX equipment, have a ham license, etc etc etc. There wasn't a problem before, because the types of people who would cause problems and do stupid stuff didn't generally have the patience / skills to get it working to the point that they could actually do damage with it. It's cool that this is a more accessible hobby now, but kids being kids without the adult supervision that would have come with affording, designing, acquiring, assembling, and flying + operating such a device is gone with cheap drones + the internet. I think that regulating it will be bad for hobbyists. Drones are already banned in national parks and some city / county parks (shame since there's an entire category of "park flyers" and few AMA RC flying fields in the Bay Area). I've given up on RC flight for now, but drone racing in warehouses and parks seems insanely fun.
- jon-wood 9y agoIn the UK drones are lightly regulated by our equivalent of the FAA, you can freely fly a drone so long as its below 400ft, 50ft or more away from other people, and you have visual contact with it. For anything outside of that you're considered to be a private pilot, and have to be licensed accordingly.
- cr0sh 9y agoIt was my understanding that the FAA already tried that, and thanks to the efforts by a certain drone operator and the AMA, the registration process and rules basically reverted back to what they were for all RC aircraft, provided your aircraft was under some weight limit (I think it was 50 lbs): http://amablog.modelaircraft.org/amagov/2017/05/19/faa-registration-requirement-struck-down/ http://amablog.modelaircraft.org/amagov/2017/05/19/faa-regis... You still have to register if you are flying your drone for commercial use, and you still have to follow a variety of other rules and regs worked out (quite a long time ago) with the AMA - but provided you do all that (and they aren't onerous from what I recall), you can basically fly almost anywhere you want. I should note, though, that it is probably prudent to get and fly under an AMA membership. It's fairly cheap insurance, ultimately. All that said, unless I am wrong - this could all change after Labor Day: http://www.modelaircraft.org/aboutama/gov.aspx http://www.modelaircraft.org/aboutama/gov.aspx
- dave_sullivan 9y agoMaybe... There are a lot of non-China + reasonable comments there, but anything related to China is too close to the party line and framed in such a way as to suggest they know how to frame propaganda well. I find it hard to believe that China (like Russia) isn't conducting a "spread propaganda through comments" campaign and has not identified HN as a key opinionmaker in the tech industry.
- jacquesm 9y agoYou'd be surprised how incredibly pervasive such views are with the Chinese and also with Chinese emigrants. Being exposed to state media for two decades will do funny stuff to your head it is not that you then move to the West and suddenly you see clearly. I know a few people who went this route and we can talk about many things but some bits are remarkably resilient in the face of having access to more facts. I'm sure there are people that fit your description but unless you have proof I don't think you should make such accusations.
- dave_sullivan 9y agoThese campaigns do exist, so the question is "Where are the bots?" Look to the people with opinions and phrasing that parallel the government, like happened with Trump/Russia/Wikileaks coordination. They also pepper the account with many unrelated comments. They're usually impossible to verify as a person. And they don't make arguments, they make deflections. Aim of propaganda today is to muddy the conversation, cast doubt, prevent consensus. So look for those patterns.
- jacquesm 9y agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14753932 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14753932
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- pasta 9y agoIs this related to this? http://www.defenseone.com/technology/2017/08/us-army-just-ordered-soldiers-stop-using-drones-chinas-dji/139999/ http://www.defenseone.com/technology/2017/08/us-army-just-or... "An Aug. 2 memo cites 'increased awareness of cyber vulnerabilities' with drones from China’s market-leading DJI."
- kfriede 9y agoMaybe I'm missing something here, but wouldn't the best "offline mode" be to never connect a sensitive phone/tablet to any internet-facing network?