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http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38934027 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38934027 German court upholds its ban on comedian's Erdogan poem Not the ex

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38934027 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38934027 German court upholds its ban on comedian's Erdogan poem Not the exact same business situation, but is that an example? Guy can't make a living off of his comedy because he's mocking a dictator.

kuschku 9y ago
The guy gets a wage from state TV, and created the poem in the first place as an example of what is banned. The poem literally uses the most ridiculous insults he could find just to ensure it would be banned. The whole purpose of the poem was to get banned.
- aaron-lebo 9y ago
  Does that change anything? Mr Boehmermann's lawyer said the ruling went against "artistic freedom". "We believe that the court's decision in its concrete form is wrong, given that it deems those parts dealing with Erdogan's approach to freedom of expression to be acceptable," said Christian Schertz. per one of the links in that article
  - kuschku 9y ago
    Yes, they wanted to get the poem banned, so the law would be appealed (which it then was).
    - petre 9y ago
      The said poem could easily qualify as protest art because it actually proved Germany is not really that much better than Turkey in terms of freedom of speech or freedom of artistic expression if you wish.
      - pluma 9y ago
        > Germany is not really that much better than Turkey in terms of freedom of speech or freedom of artistic expression That kind of rhetoric trivializes how repressive the Erdoğan regime really is. With all its faults, Germany hasn't locked up thousands of innocent people on shady claims of conspiracy or terrorism, or shut down independent TV stations or newspapers. Germany also hasn't abolished its strict division of power and given the president or chancellor absolute power.
      - walterstucco 9y ago
        I don't like Germany, I don't like Germans, but I'm sure that I would live in Germany rather than in Turkey right now. And so would you Stop pretending we believe your rethorical bullshit
walterstucco 9y ago
Have you read said poem?
- aaron-lebo 9y ago
  Yes, it's about on the level of South Park as far as material goes.
  - GauntletWizard 9y ago
    And South Park is a national treasure. Why does Germany prevent it's national treasures from being viewed?
colejohnson66 9y ago
Germany has some very strict speech laws because of the whole Hitler thing over half a century ago. It’s illegal to do the Nazi salute, use the Nazi version of the swastika, etc.
- GauntletWizard 9y ago
  And that's wrong. It's not helping - Far Right protests are almost as much of a problem in Germany as in the US, despite the fact that the police can and will lock you up for those views. If anything it has incited more people to view those things with respect - Mostly rebellious youths, but many of them never leave once they've adopted the lifestyle. Suppressing speech never has the intended effect of making it go away. It only makes it nastier and more virulent, by giving it an enemy to fight and it's followers the badge of oppression.
  - pluma 9y ago
    Citation needed. I've actually met ex-nazis in Germany and I don't believe the causality you're proposing holds up. Yes, neo-nazis think the "jews" are running the country and keeping them down, but this is no different from how the antifa think the "fascists" are doing the same. The recent rise of nationalism in Germany actually has more to do with both major parties having become indistinguishable in many cases and "moderates" flocking to the extremes to "punish" the government. It's a lot like trolls on 4chan spreading racist memes "for the lulz" until they end up having become actual white supremacists participating in Nazi rallies instead of merely shitposting on the Internet. Right-leaning "moderates" vote for the right-wing extremists (NPD if you're really angry or AfD if you are more of a realist) out of spite and then fall for the rhetoric as they continue exposing themselves to their messages. The only effective treatment against this disease seems to be constant exposure to other people with other ideas coming from other walks of life. Yes, there's an East/West divide in neo-Nazi density in Germany, but it's also very much a rural/metropolitan divide. If all the people around you look, talk and think like you, everything different becomes a threat to your way of life.
pluma 9y ago
The poem was part of a satirical performance. The performance was deemed protected speech, although the content of the poem by itself would have been a violation of a libel law (§ 103) explicitly protecting foreign heads of state that is being abolished as a consequence of this precedent. He's also still very much able to "make a living off of his comedy". His "Schmähkritik" (the title of the piece as well as the crime reciting the poem would constitute) was just a single one-off performance on a publicly funded TV show.

kuschku 9y ago

The guy gets a wage from state TV, and created the poem in the first place as an example of what is banned. The poem literally uses the most ridiculous insults he could find just to ensure it would be banned. The whole purpose of the poem was to get banned.

aaron-lebo 9y ago
Does that change anything? Mr Boehmermann's lawyer said the ruling went against "artistic freedom". "We believe that the court's decision in its concrete form is wrong, given that it deems those parts dealing with Erdogan's approach to freedom of expression to be acceptable," said Christian Schertz. per one of the links in that article
- kuschku 9y ago
  Yes, they wanted to get the poem banned, so the law would be appealed (which it then was).
  - petre 9y ago
    The said poem could easily qualify as protest art because it actually proved Germany is not really that much better than Turkey in terms of freedom of speech or freedom of artistic expression if you wish.
    - pluma 9y ago
      > Germany is not really that much better than Turkey in terms of freedom of speech or freedom of artistic expression That kind of rhetoric trivializes how repressive the Erdoğan regime really is. With all its faults, Germany hasn't locked up thousands of innocent people on shady claims of conspiracy or terrorism, or shut down independent TV stations or newspapers. Germany also hasn't abolished its strict division of power and given the president or chancellor absolute power.
    - walterstucco 9y ago
      I don't like Germany, I don't like Germans, but I'm sure that I would live in Germany rather than in Turkey right now. And so would you Stop pretending we believe your rethorical bullshit

walterstucco 9y ago

Have you read said poem?

aaron-lebo 9y ago
Yes, it's about on the level of South Park as far as material goes.
- GauntletWizard 9y ago
  And South Park is a national treasure. Why does Germany prevent it's national treasures from being viewed?

colejohnson66 9y ago

Germany has some very strict speech laws because of the whole Hitler thing over half a century ago. It’s illegal to do the Nazi salute, use the Nazi version of the swastika, etc.

GauntletWizard 9y ago
And that's wrong. It's not helping - Far Right protests are almost as much of a problem in Germany as in the US, despite the fact that the police can and will lock you up for those views. If anything it has incited more people to view those things with respect - Mostly rebellious youths, but many of them never leave once they've adopted the lifestyle. Suppressing speech never has the intended effect of making it go away. It only makes it nastier and more virulent, by giving it an enemy to fight and it's followers the badge of oppression.
- pluma 9y ago
  Citation needed. I've actually met ex-nazis in Germany and I don't believe the causality you're proposing holds up. Yes, neo-nazis think the "jews" are running the country and keeping them down, but this is no different from how the antifa think the "fascists" are doing the same. The recent rise of nationalism in Germany actually has more to do with both major parties having become indistinguishable in many cases and "moderates" flocking to the extremes to "punish" the government. It's a lot like trolls on 4chan spreading racist memes "for the lulz" until they end up having become actual white supremacists participating in Nazi rallies instead of merely shitposting on the Internet. Right-leaning "moderates" vote for the right-wing extremists (NPD if you're really angry or AfD if you are more of a realist) out of spite and then fall for the rhetoric as they continue exposing themselves to their messages. The only effective treatment against this disease seems to be constant exposure to other people with other ideas coming from other walks of life. Yes, there's an East/West divide in neo-Nazi density in Germany, but it's also very much a rural/metropolitan divide. If all the people around you look, talk and think like you, everything different becomes a threat to your way of life.

pluma 9y ago

The poem was part of a satirical performance. The performance was deemed protected speech, although the content of the poem by itself would have been a violation of a libel law (§ 103) explicitly protecting foreign heads of state that is being abolished as a consequence of this precedent. He's also still very much able to "make a living off of his comedy". His "Schmähkritik" (the title of the piece as well as the crime reciting the poem would constitute) was just a single one-off performance on a publicly funded TV show.