4 ms·

Not at all. But bringing him up in an unrelated post on a technical blog just screams "virtue signaling" to me.

kybernetikos 9y ago
When you feel strongly about something and write about it, you aren't virtue signalling, you're expressing your view. If you have any reason to take the rather uncharitable stance that his views on Trump are inauthentic, then post them, otherwise it's better just to assume that people who say things you disagree with actually think those things rather than are just saying them to look good. Accusing others of "virtue signaling" is a much clearer example of "virtue signaling" in my opinion, since it's a particular population that tends to do it, and is used primarily to put down those they disagree with and mark them as belonging to a different group rather than to actually make any kind of meaningful point.
- monochromatic 9y ago
  I'm curious what I said that sounded to you like "his stated views on Trump aren't authentic."
  - vecter 9y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtue_signalling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtue_signalling Virtue signalling is the conspicuous expression of moral values done primarily with the intent of enhancing standing within a social group. I don't think Aaronson states his views on Trump with the hopes of increasing his social status. He does it because it's just what he feels and wants to express himself.
    - monochromatic 9y ago
      And which part of that definition has anything to do with the views being inauthentic? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here.
      - kbutler 9y ago
        You're correct. Virtue signalling is usually done by people who sincerely believe the values they espouse - but they emphasize or show those values in order to gain or reinforce social status within the group. It usually is done by proclaiming things you hate, rather than things you like. If the comment adds nothing besides an "I'm with you guys, that's the worst", it's fair to see and describe it as virtue signalling. And yes, it happens on both sides of the aisle - heard lots of conservatives proclaiming their distaste for Obama over the last decade.
      - kybernetikos 9y ago
        When you express a view that you don't hold in order to receive social approval, or when you express a view that you hold lightly with more intensity and frequency than you would except for your desire to receive social approval you are being inauthentic. The whole value of the phrase 'virtue signalling' is that it accuses those you disagree with of inauthenticity. If I'm saying a thing I genuinely believe because I genuinely believe it, I'm not virtue signalling. It's only if the reason for saying the thing is to gain social approval that it's 'virtue signalling'. Any assumption that your opponent is doing something for this reason is uncharitable, and kills rational debate. It's essentially an ad hominem attack. It's also ignoring the fairly detailed entry that Scott posted explaining in his own words why he started talking about Trump in his blog: http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=2777 http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=2777 when previously he'd avoided the subject. Maybe it is virtue signalling, or maybe he really did feel as he claimed, that he had a moral responsibility to speak out against Trump. If you assume that it is only 'virtue signalling', you are cutting yourself off from engaging with his points.
mathperson 9y ago
I mean he also pokes fun at his children, himself, and posted a rap video about theoretical computer science on his blog. His blog is not exactly the Annals here... I think he is more than welcome to write about whatever he damn pleases and if you disagree you are more than welcome to argue in his comment sections (and more than likely lose)
- monochromatic 9y ago
  Of course he's welcome to write about whatever he likes. It's his blog. But I'm welcome to roll my eyes at it.
  - mathperson 9y ago
    I'm rolling my eyes at your eye rolling! How deep can we go?!
hug 9y ago
In what world is Scott Aaronson, a professor whose primary research area is computational complexity, unrelated to a P=NP solution?
- monochromatic 9y ago
  I was saying that President Trump is unrelated to the usual topics on that blog.
bradleyjg 9y ago
>virtue signaling You know that was an interesting and useful concept before you guys decided to turn into yet another empty insult to fling at people.
- taneq 9y ago
  It's still an interesting and useful concept even if it's also used as an insult. (Much like you might refer to a colleague's tight new shirt and gold chain as a "mating display" without disparaging biologists' use of the term.)

When you feel strongly about something and write about it, you aren't virtue signalling, you're expressing your view. If you have any reason to take the rather uncharitable stance that his views on Trump are inauthentic, then post them, otherwise it's better just to assume that people who say things you disagree with actually think those things rather than are just saying them to look good. Accusing others of "virtue signaling" is a much clearer example of "virtue signaling" in my opinion, since it's a particular population that tends to do it, and is used primarily to put down those they disagree with and mark them as belonging to a different group rather than to actually make any kind of meaningful point.

monochromatic 9y ago
I'm curious what I said that sounded to you like "his stated views on Trump aren't authentic."
- vecter 9y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtue_signalling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtue_signalling Virtue signalling is the conspicuous expression of moral values done primarily with the intent of enhancing standing within a social group. I don't think Aaronson states his views on Trump with the hopes of increasing his social status. He does it because it's just what he feels and wants to express himself.
  - monochromatic 9y ago
    And which part of that definition has anything to do with the views being inauthentic? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here.
    - kbutler 9y ago
      You're correct. Virtue signalling is usually done by people who sincerely believe the values they espouse - but they emphasize or show those values in order to gain or reinforce social status within the group. It usually is done by proclaiming things you hate, rather than things you like. If the comment adds nothing besides an "I'm with you guys, that's the worst", it's fair to see and describe it as virtue signalling. And yes, it happens on both sides of the aisle - heard lots of conservatives proclaiming their distaste for Obama over the last decade.
    - kybernetikos 9y ago
      When you express a view that you don't hold in order to receive social approval, or when you express a view that you hold lightly with more intensity and frequency than you would except for your desire to receive social approval you are being inauthentic. The whole value of the phrase 'virtue signalling' is that it accuses those you disagree with of inauthenticity. If I'm saying a thing I genuinely believe because I genuinely believe it, I'm not virtue signalling. It's only if the reason for saying the thing is to gain social approval that it's 'virtue signalling'. Any assumption that your opponent is doing something for this reason is uncharitable, and kills rational debate. It's essentially an ad hominem attack. It's also ignoring the fairly detailed entry that Scott posted explaining in his own words why he started talking about Trump in his blog: http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=2777 http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=2777 when previously he'd avoided the subject. Maybe it is virtue signalling, or maybe he really did feel as he claimed, that he had a moral responsibility to speak out against Trump. If you assume that it is only 'virtue signalling', you are cutting yourself off from engaging with his points.

mathperson 9y ago

I mean he also pokes fun at his children, himself, and posted a rap video about theoretical computer science on his blog. His blog is not exactly the Annals here... I think he is more than welcome to write about whatever he damn pleases and if you disagree you are more than welcome to argue in his comment sections (and more than likely lose)

monochromatic 9y ago
Of course he's welcome to write about whatever he likes. It's his blog. But I'm welcome to roll my eyes at it.
- mathperson 9y ago
  I'm rolling my eyes at your eye rolling! How deep can we go?!

hug 9y ago

In what world is Scott Aaronson, a professor whose primary research area is computational complexity, unrelated to a P=NP solution?

monochromatic 9y ago
I was saying that President Trump is unrelated to the usual topics on that blog.

bradleyjg 9y ago

>virtue signaling You know that was an interesting and useful concept before you guys decided to turn into yet another empty insult to fling at people.

taneq 9y ago
It's still an interesting and useful concept even if it's also used as an insult. (Much like you might refer to a colleague's tight new shirt and gold chain as a "mating display" without disparaging biologists' use of the term.)