7 ms·

Is Mindfulness Meditation Bullshit?

53 points by pdog 9y ago

PaulHoule 9y ago
I certainly hate the word. There is someone I know who talks about "mindfulness" all the time, especially before he walks into an open pit. Anxious people have minds that are "full" of junk and would be better off making them empty.
- gipp 9y ago
  I can't make heads or tails of your comment. What is "walk into an open pit" here?
  - PaulHoule 9y ago
    Seriously. This guy talks about mindfulness just before he walks into an open pit. He's really done it! Talking about mindfulness, for him, is a substitute to really paying attention to his environment.
    - dTal 9y ago
      I downvoted you because you talked about mindfulness instead of paying attention to your environment. Please reread the comment you just replied to.
  - programmarchy 9y ago
    I think he means a big hole in the ground.
- tehramz 9y ago
  That's pretty much the opposite of mindfulness. That mindlessness. It's clear to me you don't understand the goal of mindfulness. It's about being more intune, not less. Perhaps the person you know doesn't know what he's taking about, or perhaps you're not listening. Either way, it's clear to me you don't really understand the goal and potential benefits.
  - captainmuon 9y ago
    Wait, what? The previous poster probably knows that, and is criticizing that a lot of people who talk about "mindfulness" don't know what they are talking about. I've also met certain people who claim to practice "mindfulness" but in reality just lack reflection. (I'm not saying anything about mindfulness per se.)
DrScump 9y ago
Actual title: "Is Mindfulness Meditation a Capitalist Tool or a Path to Enlightenment? Previously posted under its URL title, "The Science and Philosophy of Mindfulness Meditation", here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15000669 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15000669
taheca 9y ago
I have ADD. I find Mindfulness to be extremely helpful in getting my mind focused for work. I find it extremely helpful in regulating emotions, especially during times of heightened stress (i.e having small children freaking out on you, and acting appropriately). Whether you hate the word or not, mindfulness, meditation, zen, don't discount the activity. There is zero downside to becoming more self aware.
- Graziano_M 9y ago
  Besides the time that could perhaps be better spent on doing something productive.
  - tehramz 9y ago
    Trying to improve yourself isn't productive? This is one of the silliest comments I've read on HN.
    - astrodust 9y ago
      It's HN. People here think sleep is a waste of time and eating is a nuisance to be remedied by chugging nutrient paste.
  - namlem 9y ago
    I doubt there are many things with a better ROI than sitting still and simply observing your mind for a while.
    - chillacy 9y ago
      To quote the article: > [Mindfulness is] about much more than living in the moment. Mindfulness, in the most deeply Buddhist sense of the term, is about an exhaustive, careful, and calm examination of the contents of human experience, an examination that can radically alter your interpretation of that experience. > It begins with one of the more striking claims made by Buddhism—that enlightenment and liberation from suffering are inextricably intertwined. We suffer—and make others suffer—because we don’t see the world, including ourselves, clearly.
deathanatos 9y ago
Yes. Surrounding workers with the noise, distractions, disease, and lack of privacy of an open office environment, and then telling them that — if they only practiced mindfulness for a few minutes a day, how much less stressed they'd be! — is grade A capitalist BS: the cost of mindfulness tutorials is < the perceived cost of better real estate. (And I use perceived, as I think most companies are weighing only the actual cost of the real estate; they are not considering the cost of lost productivity.) If employers weren't stressing their employees so much, so unnecessarily, perhaps mindfulness would not be so needed? (I write this on a 1 hour (one-way) train ride from work, for which the majority of the ride there was no available seating.) (I will admit to not having read the entire article yet. But the above occurred to me, and felt relevant. Perhaps mindfulness works; the author seems to have gotten something from it. I never have.)
- tehramz 9y ago
  Do you do nothing other than work? Your comment implies that it's only a way to deal with work in a toxic environment. It's rather shallow to act like that's the only benefit and also a straw man. Maybe it's not for you, but it's definitely helped me in everyday life, not just with work stress. Also, I didn't start done this path due to my employer suggesting it.
- astrodust 9y ago
  Some companies have such dysfunctional culture that they can turn even the best ideas into poison. Mindfulness, like motivational posters, rap, and casual Friday are all the polar opposite of what they're supposed to be when touched by corporate.
tehramz 9y ago
It amazes me how many negative comments there are about it here. There's scientific evidence that it's beneficial. Maybe it's not for you, but it's certainly helped me in my everyday life and it's wasn't something pushed onto me by my employer, but something recommended to me by a friend when I was going through a rough (somewhat irrational) time in my life. It helped me get through that but it's been even more helpful as time has gone on. So for me, it's not BS at all. And to the comment above about "doing something more productive with your time". Would you say the same thing about exercise? For me, it's like exercise for my brain. I also feel similar after meditation as I do after a good workout. Working on myself in my opinion, is probably the most productive thing I can do.
- chillacy 9y ago
  The article doesn't claim that it doesn't work, it merely decries the secularization of meditation. > All of which raises a question: Is mindfulness meditation, as it’s practiced by millions of Westerners, bullshit? Not bullshit in the sense of being worthless. Even Adam Grant admits that meditation has benefits and that, for some people, it’s the best way to get them. But has meditation practice strayed so far from its Buddhist roots that we might as well just call it a therapy or a hobby... Is there any good reason—in ancient Buddhist philosophy or for that matter in modern science—to consider mainstream mindfulness practice truly spiritual?
  - pmoriarty 9y ago
    The article starts by asking those provocative questions. It's important to note that they're questions, though, not answers. The author then goes on to say: "...the average mindfulness meditator is closer to the ancient contemplative tradition, and to transformative insights, than you might think. Though things like stress reduction or grappling with melancholy or remorse or self-loathing may seem “therapeutic,” they are organically connected to the very roots of Buddhist philosophy. What starts out as a meditation practice with modest aims can easily, and very naturally, go deeper. There is a kind of slippery slope from stress reduction to profound spiritual exploration and radical philosophical reorientation, and many people, even in Silicon Valley and on Wall Street, are further down that slope than they realize."
ahugebeach 9y ago
I lean towards yes, but only for me. I suspect biological diversity also applies to our minds (mental diversity). Slatestarcodex often talks about psychotropics affecting people differently.
reading-at-work 9y ago
I find that when a headline poses a yes/no question, the answer is usually "no."
- whacker 9y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headlines https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headline...

53 points by pdog 9y ago

I certainly hate the word. There is someone I know who talks about "mindfulness" all the time, especially before he walks into an open pit. Anxious people have minds that are "full" of junk and would be better off making them empty.

gipp 9y ago
I can't make heads or tails of your comment. What is "walk into an open pit" here?
- PaulHoule 9y ago
  Seriously. This guy talks about mindfulness just before he walks into an open pit. He's really done it! Talking about mindfulness, for him, is a substitute to really paying attention to his environment.
  - dTal 9y ago
    I downvoted you because you talked about mindfulness instead of paying attention to your environment. Please reread the comment you just replied to.
- programmarchy 9y ago
  I think he means a big hole in the ground.
tehramz 9y ago
That's pretty much the opposite of mindfulness. That mindlessness. It's clear to me you don't understand the goal of mindfulness. It's about being more intune, not less. Perhaps the person you know doesn't know what he's taking about, or perhaps you're not listening. Either way, it's clear to me you don't really understand the goal and potential benefits.
- captainmuon 9y ago
  Wait, what? The previous poster probably knows that, and is criticizing that a lot of people who talk about "mindfulness" don't know what they are talking about. I've also met certain people who claim to practice "mindfulness" but in reality just lack reflection. (I'm not saying anything about mindfulness per se.)

DrScump 9y ago

Actual title: "Is Mindfulness Meditation a Capitalist Tool or a Path to Enlightenment? Previously posted under its URL title, "The Science and Philosophy of Mindfulness Meditation", here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15000669 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15000669

taheca 9y ago

I have ADD. I find Mindfulness to be extremely helpful in getting my mind focused for work. I find it extremely helpful in regulating emotions, especially during times of heightened stress (i.e having small children freaking out on you, and acting appropriately). Whether you hate the word or not, mindfulness, meditation, zen, don't discount the activity. There is zero downside to becoming more self aware.

Graziano_M 9y ago
Besides the time that could perhaps be better spent on doing something productive.
- tehramz 9y ago
  Trying to improve yourself isn't productive? This is one of the silliest comments I've read on HN.
  - astrodust 9y ago
    It's HN. People here think sleep is a waste of time and eating is a nuisance to be remedied by chugging nutrient paste.
- namlem 9y ago
  I doubt there are many things with a better ROI than sitting still and simply observing your mind for a while.
  - chillacy 9y ago
    To quote the article: > [Mindfulness is] about much more than living in the moment. Mindfulness, in the most deeply Buddhist sense of the term, is about an exhaustive, careful, and calm examination of the contents of human experience, an examination that can radically alter your interpretation of that experience. > It begins with one of the more striking claims made by Buddhism—that enlightenment and liberation from suffering are inextricably intertwined. We suffer—and make others suffer—because we don’t see the world, including ourselves, clearly.

deathanatos 9y ago

Yes. Surrounding workers with the noise, distractions, disease, and lack of privacy of an open office environment, and then telling them that — if they only practiced mindfulness for a few minutes a day, how much less stressed they'd be! — is grade A capitalist BS: the cost of mindfulness tutorials is < the perceived cost of better real estate. (And I use perceived, as I think most companies are weighing only the actual cost of the real estate; they are not considering the cost of lost productivity.) If employers weren't stressing their employees so much, so unnecessarily, perhaps mindfulness would not be so needed? (I write this on a 1 hour (one-way) train ride from work, for which the majority of the ride there was no available seating.) (I will admit to not having read the entire article yet. But the above occurred to me, and felt relevant. Perhaps mindfulness works; the author seems to have gotten something from it. I never have.)

tehramz 9y ago
Do you do nothing other than work? Your comment implies that it's only a way to deal with work in a toxic environment. It's rather shallow to act like that's the only benefit and also a straw man. Maybe it's not for you, but it's definitely helped me in everyday life, not just with work stress. Also, I didn't start done this path due to my employer suggesting it.
astrodust 9y ago
Some companies have such dysfunctional culture that they can turn even the best ideas into poison. Mindfulness, like motivational posters, rap, and casual Friday are all the polar opposite of what they're supposed to be when touched by corporate.

tehramz 9y ago

It amazes me how many negative comments there are about it here. There's scientific evidence that it's beneficial. Maybe it's not for you, but it's certainly helped me in my everyday life and it's wasn't something pushed onto me by my employer, but something recommended to me by a friend when I was going through a rough (somewhat irrational) time in my life. It helped me get through that but it's been even more helpful as time has gone on. So for me, it's not BS at all. And to the comment above about "doing something more productive with your time". Would you say the same thing about exercise? For me, it's like exercise for my brain. I also feel similar after meditation as I do after a good workout. Working on myself in my opinion, is probably the most productive thing I can do.

chillacy 9y ago
The article doesn't claim that it doesn't work, it merely decries the secularization of meditation. > All of which raises a question: Is mindfulness meditation, as it’s practiced by millions of Westerners, bullshit? Not bullshit in the sense of being worthless. Even Adam Grant admits that meditation has benefits and that, for some people, it’s the best way to get them. But has meditation practice strayed so far from its Buddhist roots that we might as well just call it a therapy or a hobby... Is there any good reason—in ancient Buddhist philosophy or for that matter in modern science—to consider mainstream mindfulness practice truly spiritual?
- pmoriarty 9y ago
  The article starts by asking those provocative questions. It's important to note that they're questions, though, not answers. The author then goes on to say: "...the average mindfulness meditator is closer to the ancient contemplative tradition, and to transformative insights, than you might think. Though things like stress reduction or grappling with melancholy or remorse or self-loathing may seem “therapeutic,” they are organically connected to the very roots of Buddhist philosophy. What starts out as a meditation practice with modest aims can easily, and very naturally, go deeper. There is a kind of slippery slope from stress reduction to profound spiritual exploration and radical philosophical reorientation, and many people, even in Silicon Valley and on Wall Street, are further down that slope than they realize."

ahugebeach 9y ago

I lean towards yes, but only for me. I suspect biological diversity also applies to our minds (mental diversity). Slatestarcodex often talks about psychotropics affecting people differently.

reading-at-work 9y ago

I find that when a headline poses a yes/no question, the answer is usually "no."

whacker 9y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headlines https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headline...