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> Before quotas and social justice warriors, were you thinking about fairness and equality when the status quo potentially benefited you and excluded others not
by Lon7 9y ago
> Before quotas and social justice warriors, were you thinking about fairness and equality when the status quo potentially benefited you and excluded others not on their merit but race and gender?
I was not thinking about that. And when I started being exposed to it, my immediate reaction was like you described: seeing political correctness and reverse-racism/sexism as a greater problem than sexism and racism themselves.
It took a while, but I now realize how silly that reaction was. I felt somewhat attacked by these 'social justice warriors and quotas'. And my reaction was in self defense to this perceived attack. I spent so much time reading about it on the internet. There were so many smart people applying logic and engineering skills to these social problems. I identified with these people and I agreed with most of it. They made it sound like these are all easy problems to solve and if everyone had read the same scientific studies as them and applied the same logical thinking then we would have a solution.
My view wasn't changed until I had much more experience in the real world. All these women that are being talked about as statistics are real people. They're become my friends and coworkers. I've learned to sympathize with them. I've learned that it's not us vs them. We are working together is this. I've learned that political correctness and reverse-racism/sexism are definitely not a greater problem than sexism and racism themselves.
I think the human aspect of all this is sorely missing on HN. At least it was for me.
- jasonwatkinspdx 9y agoJust wanna thank you for posting this. Change like the above isn't easy or comfortable.
- m1el 9y agoNothing you said here is a counter argument to either the comment you replied to or the linked post. > All these women that are being talked about as statistics are real people. Nobody denies that. However, once you say that there's not enough "equality" of engineers, you invoke statistics. > I think the human aspect of all this is sorely missing on HN. Think of those poor talented engineers denied a place of work because of "gender quotas"! These engineers have dreams and passions. They aren't just statistics! See how this works? > I've learned that it's not us vs them. Except that's exactly the tactics used by SJWs. > I've learned that political correctness and reverse-racism/sexism are definitely not a greater problem than sexism and racism themselves. Reverse sexism is exactly the same problem as sexism.
- jeffrom 9y agoWell it's not. Not objectively. Not in any sense. Only in abstract terms.
- TheLilHipster 9y ago> Not in any sense. Eh? > Only in abstract terms. You want something literal? Lets throw some reverse-VIOLENCE into the mix! I'm going to bash my neighbors head in, because he's "definitely" a violent psychopath (It said so on the internet remember). The heart of the issue is DISCRIMINATION. Doesn't matter if its positive or negative, you're EXCLUDING groups/individuals which is divisive and breeds discontent. Someone posted below > judged by the content and quality of their character rather than some of the variation of an attempt to combat discrimination through discrimination. THAT is equality.
- leereeves 9y agoHow many people here were alive "when the status quo potentially benefited you and excluded others not on their merit but race and gender?" Preferences (quotas, lower standards, financial incentives, etc) for women and minorities in hiring and admissions have existed for a long time.
- Lon7 9y agoI'm still pretty young yet I've experienced benefits solely from my gender. My sister is smarter than me and better at math and physics than me. I was invited by my grade school to go to robotics camps over the summer, she wasn't. I was given special permission to take computer science courses not offered by our highschool, she wasn't. I was encouraged to to go into engineering by our guidance Councillor, she wasn't. My dad wanted me to go into engineering, he didn't really want her to. I didn't realize that any of this was happening at the time. It wasn't until years later that I was talking to my sister that she explained the countless opportunities and support that I had and she didn't. This all happened in a well off neighborhood in Canada. So is it really any surprise that I'm the highly paid engineer while she is a school teacher barely scraping by? The status quo still benefits people based on race and gender.
- leereeves 9y agoI can't speak about Canada, but in the US, personal anecdotes aside, 60% of college graduates are women. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/storyline/wp/2014/12/11/women-are-dominating-men-at-college-blame-sexism/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/storyline/wp/2014/12/11/... And young women earn more than young men, on average. http://content.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2015274,00.html http://content.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2015274... I'm sorry about what happened to your sister, but that's not the norm.
- unityByFreedom 9y ago> I can't speak about Canada, but in the US, personal anecdotes aside, 60% of college graduates are women. The gender gaps under discussion are specific to computer science [1]. That more and more women have been (a) going to college and (b) getting into STEM with the exception of computer science is why this is so interesting to debate. [1] http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2014/10/21/357629765/when-women-stopped-coding http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2014/10/21/357629765/when-...