4 ms·

Always good to keep the following quote often attributed to Voltaire in mind : "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say i

Always good to keep the following quote often attributed to Voltaire in mind : "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
tompagenet2 9y ago
Google has every right morally and legally to not wish to provide a platform for hate speech.
- wang_li 9y ago
  The more Google chooses what content is hosted on their platforms, the less authentic their claims of independence from the content and the more liability to which they should be exposed.
  - foobarbazetc 9y ago
    They're not hosting anything. These Nazis got kicked off one registrar and decided to make it Google's problem. Companies have every right to choose who they do business with. There are plenty of registrars out there that have no issues with hate speech. This is just a PR exercise for the Nazis.
    - wang_li 9y ago
      I was responding to the general statement made in the comment to which I replied.
- desbest 9y ago
  The funny thing about hate speech is that no one can make a unanimous conclusion for what hate speech is. Nowadays hate speech is a euphamism for any idea or opinion someone doesn't like, so the term hate speech has lost its meaning. It now means using gender pronouns to refer to people, using gendered job names, saying that men and women are born with different brains, saying that there's only 2 genders, saying that feminism is cancer, saying there's a link between islam and terrorism, saying that black people underachieve in society due to genetics instead of the evil racist oppressive white male - and much more.
  - Eleopteryx 9y ago
    Well you pretty much just concisely spelled out your political leanings. >no one can make a unanimous conclusion for what hate speech is Would it be a "unanimous" conclusion if it were a conclusion drawn by a singular person or entity? >It now means using gender pronouns to refer to people Do you have an example of this being identified as hate speech?
    - desbest 9y ago
      > Would it be a "unanimous" conclusion if it were a conclusion drawn by a singular person or entity? Which singular person or entity should be responsible for determining what "hate speech" is? According to SJWiki I am a neurosexist for believing that men and women have different brains and that gender is not a social construct. Should SJWiki be trusted? According to the ADL, Gavin McInnes and Mike Cernovich are hate preachers. Should the ADL be trusted? > Do you have an example of this being identified as hate speech? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMl4kIxw-jo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMl4kIxw-jo Also it's a slippery slope because once the "hate speech" clampdown happens, we'll then be punished for microaggressions, so even if you're not a racist, you'll be seen as racist for asking what race or ethnicity someone is?
tanilama 9y ago
Hell I won't defend u you if u threat to kill me. That applies to Nazis pretty well.
foobarbazetc 9y ago
No one needs to defend Nazis.
CalChris 9y ago
Google is not preventing the Daily Stormer from spewing their swill. They aren't interfering with the Daily Stormer's rights in any way. They're just refusing to support the Daily Stormer on their commercial platform. In that, Google is well within their rights. The Daily Stormer is capable of taking their business elsewhere.
- gist 9y ago
  Actually they are not. Once a domain is transferred it has a 60 day lock on it and can't be transferred to another registrar. It can only be transferred back to the losing registrar if there is some of accident or other clearly defined reason. This is to prevent people from shifting domains around primarily to avoid IP enforcement or UDRP problems. Honestly this is a terrible precedent they have here. I am surprised they are doing this (if true and hence why I questioned the entire story) because it puts them at a disadvantage in future cases as far as 'why didn't you stop xyz domain registration that is now responsible for my child's death after I wrote to you and put you on notice'.
  - CalChris 9y ago
    The fact that they were evicted from Go Daddy and only briefly (an hour) registered with Google is really the Daily Stormer's problem akin to your shifting domains around to avoid IP enforcement example.
- drspacemonkey 9y ago
  Of course Google has that right. I question whether it will have the intended effect, though. Pretty sure isolating extremists tends to cause further extremism.
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    No, isolating the communities from which extremists are drawn causes further extremism, isolating extremists does not. There is a challenge in isolating extremists while not isolating (and, indeed, productively engaging) the communities from which members are radicalized, and quite often brute-force efforts to isolate extremists (especially ones keying on race, nationality, and religion) end up isolating the feeder communities with the extremists, which is about the worst possible outcome.
s73ver_ 9y ago
But does that involve expending your resources allowing them to? Also, isn't this Google/GoDaddy expressing THEIR speech by removing users who violate their TOS? Remember, GoDaddy was ok with hosting the site until an article defaming the woman who died on Saturday started making the rounds.
_jgvg 9y ago
> "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Please notice that the quote is not "I disapprove of what you say, but I'll offer you my house for you to say it".
- kareldonk 9y ago
  This is not offering your house for it. That would be if google was actually hosting their site on its servers. In this case it's a domain pointing to their content. As a registrar Google is serving the public and I doubt you can deny someone this service in a moral sense. Can a doctor deny to treat them if they end up in his office for serious injuries? What if all registrars deny them, is it morally right to effectively erase them from the internet for simply expressing their thoughts?
  - _jgvg 9y ago
    > As a registrar Google is serving the public and I doubt you can deny someone this service in a moral sense. Actually, you can deny anyone except protected categories. > Can a doctor deny to treat them if they end up in his office for serious injuries? Yes, the doctor chooses not to treat patients with the illness or injury you suffer from. > What if all registrars deny them, is it morally right to effectively erase them from the internet for simply expressing their thoughts? Nobody is being erased from the internet. Also, they can open their own registrar system. So no, there's no obligation for Google, or any other registrar, to host their information.
    - kareldonk 9y ago
      I hope you dont end up in an emergency hospital with the only doctor who can help you refusing to do so because he doesnt like you for some reason.
      - ucaetano 9y ago
        So do I, but that doesn't change reality. And a hospital might fire a doctor for refusing to treat you.
ibn_ibid 9y ago
Keep that in mind as Nazis put a boot in your face

Always good to keep the following quote often attributed to Voltaire in mind : "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

tompagenet2 9y ago

Google has every right morally and legally to not wish to provide a platform for hate speech.

wang_li 9y ago
The more Google chooses what content is hosted on their platforms, the less authentic their claims of independence from the content and the more liability to which they should be exposed.
- foobarbazetc 9y ago
  They're not hosting anything. These Nazis got kicked off one registrar and decided to make it Google's problem. Companies have every right to choose who they do business with. There are plenty of registrars out there that have no issues with hate speech. This is just a PR exercise for the Nazis.
  - wang_li 9y ago
    I was responding to the general statement made in the comment to which I replied.
desbest 9y ago
The funny thing about hate speech is that no one can make a unanimous conclusion for what hate speech is. Nowadays hate speech is a euphamism for any idea or opinion someone doesn't like, so the term hate speech has lost its meaning. It now means using gender pronouns to refer to people, using gendered job names, saying that men and women are born with different brains, saying that there's only 2 genders, saying that feminism is cancer, saying there's a link between islam and terrorism, saying that black people underachieve in society due to genetics instead of the evil racist oppressive white male - and much more.
- Eleopteryx 9y ago
  Well you pretty much just concisely spelled out your political leanings. >no one can make a unanimous conclusion for what hate speech is Would it be a "unanimous" conclusion if it were a conclusion drawn by a singular person or entity? >It now means using gender pronouns to refer to people Do you have an example of this being identified as hate speech?
  - desbest 9y ago
    > Would it be a "unanimous" conclusion if it were a conclusion drawn by a singular person or entity? Which singular person or entity should be responsible for determining what "hate speech" is? According to SJWiki I am a neurosexist for believing that men and women have different brains and that gender is not a social construct. Should SJWiki be trusted? According to the ADL, Gavin McInnes and Mike Cernovich are hate preachers. Should the ADL be trusted? > Do you have an example of this being identified as hate speech? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMl4kIxw-jo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMl4kIxw-jo Also it's a slippery slope because once the "hate speech" clampdown happens, we'll then be punished for microaggressions, so even if you're not a racist, you'll be seen as racist for asking what race or ethnicity someone is?

tanilama 9y ago

Hell I won't defend u you if u threat to kill me. That applies to Nazis pretty well.

foobarbazetc 9y ago

No one needs to defend Nazis.

CalChris 9y ago

Google is not preventing the Daily Stormer from spewing their swill. They aren't interfering with the Daily Stormer's rights in any way. They're just refusing to support the Daily Stormer on their commercial platform. In that, Google is well within their rights. The Daily Stormer is capable of taking their business elsewhere.

gist 9y ago
Actually they are not. Once a domain is transferred it has a 60 day lock on it and can't be transferred to another registrar. It can only be transferred back to the losing registrar if there is some of accident or other clearly defined reason. This is to prevent people from shifting domains around primarily to avoid IP enforcement or UDRP problems. Honestly this is a terrible precedent they have here. I am surprised they are doing this (if true and hence why I questioned the entire story) because it puts them at a disadvantage in future cases as far as 'why didn't you stop xyz domain registration that is now responsible for my child's death after I wrote to you and put you on notice'.
- CalChris 9y ago
  The fact that they were evicted from Go Daddy and only briefly (an hour) registered with Google is really the Daily Stormer's problem akin to your shifting domains around to avoid IP enforcement example.
drspacemonkey 9y ago
Of course Google has that right. I question whether it will have the intended effect, though. Pretty sure isolating extremists tends to cause further extremism.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  No, isolating the communities from which extremists are drawn causes further extremism, isolating extremists does not. There is a challenge in isolating extremists while not isolating (and, indeed, productively engaging) the communities from which members are radicalized, and quite often brute-force efforts to isolate extremists (especially ones keying on race, nationality, and religion) end up isolating the feeder communities with the extremists, which is about the worst possible outcome.

s73ver_ 9y ago

But does that involve expending your resources allowing them to? Also, isn't this Google/GoDaddy expressing THEIR speech by removing users who violate their TOS? Remember, GoDaddy was ok with hosting the site until an article defaming the woman who died on Saturday started making the rounds.

_jgvg 9y ago

> "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Please notice that the quote is not "I disapprove of what you say, but I'll offer you my house for you to say it".

kareldonk 9y ago
This is not offering your house for it. That would be if google was actually hosting their site on its servers. In this case it's a domain pointing to their content. As a registrar Google is serving the public and I doubt you can deny someone this service in a moral sense. Can a doctor deny to treat them if they end up in his office for serious injuries? What if all registrars deny them, is it morally right to effectively erase them from the internet for simply expressing their thoughts?
- _jgvg 9y ago
  > As a registrar Google is serving the public and I doubt you can deny someone this service in a moral sense. Actually, you can deny anyone except protected categories. > Can a doctor deny to treat them if they end up in his office for serious injuries? Yes, the doctor chooses not to treat patients with the illness or injury you suffer from. > What if all registrars deny them, is it morally right to effectively erase them from the internet for simply expressing their thoughts? Nobody is being erased from the internet. Also, they can open their own registrar system. So no, there's no obligation for Google, or any other registrar, to host their information.
  - kareldonk 9y ago
    I hope you dont end up in an emergency hospital with the only doctor who can help you refusing to do so because he doesnt like you for some reason.
    - ucaetano 9y ago
      So do I, but that doesn't change reality. And a hospital might fire a doctor for refusing to treat you.

ibn_ibid 9y ago

Keep that in mind as Nazis put a boot in your face