5 ms·

Not if we realize that free speech doesn't mean letting hate speech go unchecked

by ibn_ibid 9y ago

m-p-3 9y ago
It's a tough problem to tackle as soon as you throw subjectivity and personal beliefs in the mix.
- msbarnett 9y ago
  Perhaps, but there aren't exactly "many sides" to a group chanting "gas the kikes" and celebrating the murder -by-car of a counter-protestor. There's no moral grey-area here.
at-fates-hands 9y ago
That's exactly the reason why it exists in the first place. Racist viewpoints? COVERED Misogynistic viewpoints? COVERED Satanism, Cults and "questionable" religious groups? COVERED Pedophiles and MBLA? COVERED Websites that advocate illegal drug use? COVERED Websites that advocate political assassination? COVERED Websites that advocate killing law enforcement officers? COVERED There are limitations to free speech, but the reason it EXISTS is not cover speech YOU approve it, it's for speech people you DO NOT agree with and viewpoints that aren't popular. This is the problem I have with people who say they support freedom of speech, but when it comes to groups like ANTIFA, BLM and others on the left, it's ok to shut down white supremacist websites, but not others exposing the same thing, just on the other side of the aisle. You can't have it both ways, that's why freedom of speech covers EVERYBODY equally.
- ibn_ibid 9y ago
  >You can't have it both ways, that's why freedom of speech covers EVERYBODY equally. Actually, you can, that's why there are free speech exceptions in US law and protected classes? Hate speech and hate crimes are a real thing. Also "ANTIFA" (it's "Antifa" lol) and BLM aren't monolithic groups - one is an ideology dedicated to fighting fascism and the other is a social justice movement consisting of many decentralized local community orgs. Neither of these are comparable to Nazis literally shouting to gas kikes in the streets and running over peaceful protesters and if you think they are, you might want to check yourself.
  - at-fates-hands 9y ago
    >> Neither of these are comparable to Nazis literally shouting to gas kikes in the streets and running over peaceful protesters and if you think they are, you might want to check yourself. ANTIFA? By it’s very nature Antifa has demonstrated it is a hate group. It attacks Christianity. It attacks white people. It attacks the freedom of speech and assembly. It attacks the very foundation of the country that has allowed them to speak freely while trying to destroy anyone with another idea or a different perspective. Antifa is anathema to what we collectively stand for as a nation and as a people. The irony is their actions are the very EPITOME of Fascism: Fascism is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism, characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and control of industry and commerce, that came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe. BLM openly advocates for the murdering of white police officers. Not sure how that doesn't rise to the level of hate speech. Did you miss the youtube videos of the BLM riot in Milwaukee where the black rioters were actively looking for white people to assault and beat up? Again, how do those actions NOT rise to a hate crime??? If you had white people out trolling for Black people to assault, you'd be screaming at the top of your lungs it was a hate crime, right? >> Nazis literally shouting to gas kikes in the streets and running over peaceful protesters There were no peaceful protestors on either side. Both sides were armed, and there are images of people swinging bats at the car as it went down the street. You can't say the white nationalists were the only ones carrying weapons and looking for a violent confrontation. It was a tragedy what happened, but let's not try and act all morally superior saying one side was "demonstrating" peacefully while the other acted violent. Both sides are culpable here. >> you might want to check yourself. No check needed. If you can't see the hate groups on your own side of the fence, there is little point in arguing is there?
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
  - themaninthedark 9y ago
    Fascist just happen to include people going to a Trump rally or a milo yiannopoulos speech, right? They are all fascists. If we want to cherrypick hate speech quotes how about BLM "Pigs in a blanket fry em like bacon" https://www.google.com/amp/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/pigs-in-a-blanket-chant-at-minnesota-fair-riles-police/ https://www.google.com/amp/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/pigs-in-... Or do you now condone shutting down BLM for hate speech? I am willing to bet that you don't. Is it fine because it is your side?
- jacquesm 9y ago
  Except that 'antifa' is Anti Fascism, which is a pretty good thing except of course when you're a fascist and BLM does not say 'but white lives do not matter', it is usually interpreted as 'black lives matter too'. It takes a special kind of warp to see either of those as spewing hate, whereas it is pretty easy to why people in general believe Nazis spew hate.
  - desbest 9y ago
    Antifa aren't anti fascist. They're a terrorist organisation. They physically attack people for wearing Donald Trump hats and for attending protests.
  - SeoxyS 9y ago
    Saying "antifa" are simply anti-fascists is like saying "nazis" are simply nationalist socialists. There are extremist groups on either side of the ideological spectrum. (which often share a lot of ideologies too)

Not if we realize that free speech doesn't mean letting hate speech go unchecked

m-p-3 9y ago

It's a tough problem to tackle as soon as you throw subjectivity and personal beliefs in the mix.

msbarnett 9y ago
Perhaps, but there aren't exactly "many sides" to a group chanting "gas the kikes" and celebrating the murder -by-car of a counter-protestor. There's no moral grey-area here.

at-fates-hands 9y ago

That's exactly the reason why it exists in the first place. Racist viewpoints? COVERED Misogynistic viewpoints? COVERED Satanism, Cults and "questionable" religious groups? COVERED Pedophiles and MBLA? COVERED Websites that advocate illegal drug use? COVERED Websites that advocate political assassination? COVERED Websites that advocate killing law enforcement officers? COVERED There are limitations to free speech, but the reason it EXISTS is not cover speech YOU approve it, it's for speech people you DO NOT agree with and viewpoints that aren't popular. This is the problem I have with people who say they support freedom of speech, but when it comes to groups like ANTIFA, BLM and others on the left, it's ok to shut down white supremacist websites, but not others exposing the same thing, just on the other side of the aisle. You can't have it both ways, that's why freedom of speech covers EVERYBODY equally.

ibn_ibid 9y ago
>You can't have it both ways, that's why freedom of speech covers EVERYBODY equally. Actually, you can, that's why there are free speech exceptions in US law and protected classes? Hate speech and hate crimes are a real thing. Also "ANTIFA" (it's "Antifa" lol) and BLM aren't monolithic groups - one is an ideology dedicated to fighting fascism and the other is a social justice movement consisting of many decentralized local community orgs. Neither of these are comparable to Nazis literally shouting to gas kikes in the streets and running over peaceful protesters and if you think they are, you might want to check yourself.
- at-fates-hands 9y ago
  >> Neither of these are comparable to Nazis literally shouting to gas kikes in the streets and running over peaceful protesters and if you think they are, you might want to check yourself. ANTIFA? By it’s very nature Antifa has demonstrated it is a hate group. It attacks Christianity. It attacks white people. It attacks the freedom of speech and assembly. It attacks the very foundation of the country that has allowed them to speak freely while trying to destroy anyone with another idea or a different perspective. Antifa is anathema to what we collectively stand for as a nation and as a people. The irony is their actions are the very EPITOME of Fascism: Fascism is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism, characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and control of industry and commerce, that came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe. BLM openly advocates for the murdering of white police officers. Not sure how that doesn't rise to the level of hate speech. Did you miss the youtube videos of the BLM riot in Milwaukee where the black rioters were actively looking for white people to assault and beat up? Again, how do those actions NOT rise to a hate crime??? If you had white people out trolling for Black people to assault, you'd be screaming at the top of your lungs it was a hate crime, right? >> Nazis literally shouting to gas kikes in the streets and running over peaceful protesters There were no peaceful protestors on either side. Both sides were armed, and there are images of people swinging bats at the car as it went down the street. You can't say the white nationalists were the only ones carrying weapons and looking for a violent confrontation. It was a tragedy what happened, but let's not try and act all morally superior saying one side was "demonstrating" peacefully while the other acted violent. Both sides are culpable here. >> you might want to check yourself. No check needed. If you can't see the hate groups on your own side of the fence, there is little point in arguing is there?
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- themaninthedark 9y ago
  Fascist just happen to include people going to a Trump rally or a milo yiannopoulos speech, right? They are all fascists. If we want to cherrypick hate speech quotes how about BLM "Pigs in a blanket fry em like bacon" https://www.google.com/amp/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/pigs-in-a-blanket-chant-at-minnesota-fair-riles-police/ https://www.google.com/amp/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/pigs-in-... Or do you now condone shutting down BLM for hate speech? I am willing to bet that you don't. Is it fine because it is your side?
jacquesm 9y ago
Except that 'antifa' is Anti Fascism, which is a pretty good thing except of course when you're a fascist and BLM does not say 'but white lives do not matter', it is usually interpreted as 'black lives matter too'. It takes a special kind of warp to see either of those as spewing hate, whereas it is pretty easy to why people in general believe Nazis spew hate.
- desbest 9y ago
  Antifa aren't anti fascist. They're a terrorist organisation. They physically attack people for wearing Donald Trump hats and for attending protests.
- SeoxyS 9y ago
  Saying "antifa" are simply anti-fascists is like saying "nazis" are simply nationalist socialists. There are extremist groups on either side of the ideological spectrum. (which often share a lot of ideologies too)