7 ms·

Beside C#, what other languages are considered to have first class support I know VB .Net might be implicit here, but I am not so sure as I dont hear much abou

Beside C#, what other languages are considered to have first class support I know VB .Net might be implicit here, but I am not so sure as I dont hear much about it anymore and I think it is no longer adding new features And I know that there is some F# support So aside from those two (VB .Net and F#) ... any other languages have serious support for .net core?

canada_dry 9y ago
Apparently a bunch of extensions like C, C++, Python, Go are available. Not sure 'bout "first class support". FYI... interesting collection of .net core stuff here: https://github.com/thangchung/awesome-dotnet-core https://github.com/thangchung/awesome-dotnet-core
bsaul 9y ago
i tried f# and it really feels like a second classe citizen ( at least on macos). Very few educational resources. You still need to spend a lot of time on c sharp to learn the frameworks, and then maybe move to f#.
- pryelluw 9y ago
  This has been my experience as well and I have really good f# devs available to answer questions.
- jackfoxy 9y ago
  The problem is F# does not use the Roslyn compiler (but does use other components of the Roslyn tool stack in Visual Studio) and it uses things in the IL (primarily tail calls) the other .NET languages do not -- and the rest of the Microsoft teams understandably want to move fast on all the initiatives surrounding .NET Core. This results in the Microsoft F# team and the F# community contributors playing catch-up. Eventually F# will catch-up, but it is going to take time.
  - pjmlp 9y ago
    F# was supported on the MDIL compiler for Windows 8.x, then Microsoft did not consider the language relevant enough to support on the new .NET Native compiler when Windows 10 came out, almost two years ago. How much time do they need to catch up?
  - TensorMetric 9y ago
    Microsoft's own .NET Native runtime is simply not .NET compliant https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15007166 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15007166 This is unacceptable and should be fixed ASAP. F# is a mature language existing for more than a decade, there is simply no excuse to let this slide.
    - jackfoxy 9y ago
      Microsoft had to fix the C# compiler. The result was Roslyn. It's actually amazing that Roslyn was a successful project. Probably most software projects that ambitious fail. The project would have failed if they tried to make it F# compliant at the same time. Speaking as someone who makes his living writing F# code, I'm as frustrated as anyone about this, but there will be a successful resolution. I just don't know how soon. Before today's announcements my personal thinking was that it would be this autumn. That's still possible. In the meantime I can still function in the F# world, as before. It just remains frustrating to branch out into some of the areas I would like to.
      - TensorMetric 9y ago
        If it's going to be fixed this year, then why isn't it even on the official road map? https://github.com/Microsoft/visualfsharp/issues/2400 https://github.com/Microsoft/visualfsharp/issues/2400
        jackfoxy 9y ago
        You're absolutely correct about .NET native not being .NET compliant...sigh...there are just higher priorities for such a big company. As quoted in the comments " [F# native support] depends on the Core CLR team improving support for a couple of big items. dotnet native is and AOT compilation are absolutely a goal for us ... they just are longer term than this roadmap anticipates." It's actually eye-opening how few the number of people at MS who actually write code is. I suppose if there were more coders they would be stepping all over each other and never get anything done.
ams6110 9y ago
I think C# is the one and only language to consider if you're doing anything serious in .NET. While F# is academically interesting and maybe OK for some personal or solo projects, you'll struggle to find developers for anything of substantial size.
- bnw06 9y ago
  I'd agree with this but F# is increasingly moving towards first class support.
  - maxxxxx 9y ago
    Is that true? I see no evidence for that.
  - pjmlp 9y ago
    I will believe that when F# gets a spot in UWP, right now it seems on its way out with an open ticket for support since Windows 10 came out.
    - TensorMetric 9y ago
      We should make a bigger fuss about F# support for UWP https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15007166 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15007166
ocdtrekkie 9y ago
Visual Basic .NET is still getting new features, though they recently announced they will stop keeping exact parity between VB and C# language features. (Instead, it looks like they are interested in making it easier to include C# code in your VB project and vice versa long-term.) Discussion of VB.NET language design can be found here: https://github.com/dotnet/vblang https://github.com/dotnet/vblang

canada_dry 9y ago

Apparently a bunch of extensions like C, C++, Python, Go are available. Not sure 'bout "first class support". FYI... interesting collection of .net core stuff here: https://github.com/thangchung/awesome-dotnet-core https://github.com/thangchung/awesome-dotnet-core

bsaul 9y ago

i tried f# and it really feels like a second classe citizen ( at least on macos). Very few educational resources. You still need to spend a lot of time on c sharp to learn the frameworks, and then maybe move to f#.

pryelluw 9y ago
This has been my experience as well and I have really good f# devs available to answer questions.
jackfoxy 9y ago
The problem is F# does not use the Roslyn compiler (but does use other components of the Roslyn tool stack in Visual Studio) and it uses things in the IL (primarily tail calls) the other .NET languages do not -- and the rest of the Microsoft teams understandably want to move fast on all the initiatives surrounding .NET Core. This results in the Microsoft F# team and the F# community contributors playing catch-up. Eventually F# will catch-up, but it is going to take time.
- pjmlp 9y ago
  F# was supported on the MDIL compiler for Windows 8.x, then Microsoft did not consider the language relevant enough to support on the new .NET Native compiler when Windows 10 came out, almost two years ago. How much time do they need to catch up?
- TensorMetric 9y ago
  Microsoft's own .NET Native runtime is simply not .NET compliant https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15007166 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15007166 This is unacceptable and should be fixed ASAP. F# is a mature language existing for more than a decade, there is simply no excuse to let this slide.
  - jackfoxy 9y ago
    Microsoft had to fix the C# compiler. The result was Roslyn. It's actually amazing that Roslyn was a successful project. Probably most software projects that ambitious fail. The project would have failed if they tried to make it F# compliant at the same time. Speaking as someone who makes his living writing F# code, I'm as frustrated as anyone about this, but there will be a successful resolution. I just don't know how soon. Before today's announcements my personal thinking was that it would be this autumn. That's still possible. In the meantime I can still function in the F# world, as before. It just remains frustrating to branch out into some of the areas I would like to.
    - TensorMetric 9y ago
      If it's going to be fixed this year, then why isn't it even on the official road map? https://github.com/Microsoft/visualfsharp/issues/2400 https://github.com/Microsoft/visualfsharp/issues/2400
      - jackfoxy 9y ago
        You're absolutely correct about .NET native not being .NET compliant...sigh...there are just higher priorities for such a big company. As quoted in the comments " [F# native support] depends on the Core CLR team improving support for a couple of big items. dotnet native is and AOT compilation are absolutely a goal for us ... they just are longer term than this roadmap anticipates." It's actually eye-opening how few the number of people at MS who actually write code is. I suppose if there were more coders they would be stepping all over each other and never get anything done.

ams6110 9y ago

I think C# is the one and only language to consider if you're doing anything serious in .NET. While F# is academically interesting and maybe OK for some personal or solo projects, you'll struggle to find developers for anything of substantial size.

bnw06 9y ago
I'd agree with this but F# is increasingly moving towards first class support.
- maxxxxx 9y ago
  Is that true? I see no evidence for that.
- pjmlp 9y ago
  I will believe that when F# gets a spot in UWP, right now it seems on its way out with an open ticket for support since Windows 10 came out.
  - TensorMetric 9y ago
    We should make a bigger fuss about F# support for UWP https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15007166 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15007166

ocdtrekkie 9y ago

Visual Basic .NET is still getting new features, though they recently announced they will stop keeping exact parity between VB and C# language features. (Instead, it looks like they are interested in making it easier to include C# code in your VB project and vice versa long-term.) Discussion of VB.NET language design can be found here: https://github.com/dotnet/vblang https://github.com/dotnet/vblang