5 ms·

Daily Stormer Moves from GoDaddy to Google

30 points by betafive 9y ago

dfps 9y ago
They being the domain registrar (edit thx betafive) for the domain (they already didn't host the content). Also, this followed hacking and threats: ... (CNN)The Daily Stormer, a white supremacist and neo-Nazi website, needs to find another domain name provider after GoDaddy gave it the boot following a derogatory story about the woman killed at the Charlottesville, Virginia, rally. The site, which calls itself "The World's Most Genocidal Republican Website," registered its name with GoDaddy -- but GoDaddy doesn't host the Daily Stormer's content. ... (Guardian)A message purportedly posted by hackers has appeared on the Daily Stormer, a neo-Nazi website, saying the site has been taken over in response to an article criticising a woman who died during violence at far-right rally in Virginia over the weekend. ... What I'm curious about is Google. Are they providing hosting and domain serving for anybody (even unpopular speech)? Where does content go when companies refuse to work with publishers?
- betafive 9y ago
  Google has replaced GoDaddy as the registrar. Afaict, the domain continues to be hosted by/through CloudFlare, as it has been for several years. The "hack" is fake.
  - dfps 9y ago
    So is Google now a more reliable/bulletproof registrar? I think I've heard CloudFlare will not take refuse anything
    - betafive 9y ago
      Tbh, I doubt Google knows they're the Stormers' registrar yet; you can transfer domains automatically. CloudFlare doesn't provide hosting, it's a reverse proxy. But, if you believe http://www.crimeflare.com/cfs.html http://www.crimeflare.com/cfs.html, the actual web server sitting behind dailystormer.com is hosted by online.net, of France.
      - dfps 9y ago
        Right. I use CF. I just meant that there has been criticism aimed at CF for 'protecting' (providing service to) unpopular speech (even harmful stuff like IS), and I think I read they were unwilling to refuse service to anybody. France, hey? I've actually heard France is competitive with US when it comes to internet and free speech. Do you think that's true? I wonder which country most protects speech on the internet?
        betafive 9y ago
        It is illegal to promote ethnic hatred or deny the Holocaust in France, so...
        dfps 9y ago
        Is there any country that protects all speech that you know of? (Related to the law you mentioned, in Germany they also have laws that are reactions to WWII, and they arrested some Chinese tourists for making Nazi salutes for tourist photos outside a government building last week.)
        betafive 9y ago
        Protecting speech is often in tension with other individual liberties that are supposed to be protected, and the purpose of government is to arbitrate those disputes. I don't think there are any that grant unfettered protection to speech-- a government that permitted advocation of treason, for instance, probably wouldn't last very long.
        dfps 9y ago
        It is definitely possible to have complete protection of speech. It's a choice, and the repercussions of it would not involve great harm, although since the 1950s we seem to be getting closer (and sometimes further). Treason is only possible if a country is at war (ie has an "enemy"). The speech would be protected as it is now (that wouldn't be the crime they break), but they could be found guilty of committing treason by the same (speech in this case) act.
  - duskwuff 9y ago
    > The "hack" is fake. Unproven but likely. The "defaced" page was posted through their CMS (WordPress), which is rather atypical for defaced domains. The writer's promise to only take the domain down for 24 hours is also quite unusual. What seems most likely to me is that this was used as an excuse to take down their content until their domain was transferred away from GoDaddy.
tdurden 9y ago
Google just kicked them off for violating TOS as well.
- betafive 9y ago
  Good.
  - Clubber 9y ago
    Not really. I don't care for what they say, but it's important that they have the ability to say it. It's concerning that private companies, through registrars have the ability to erase viewpoints from the public internet. More signs that the internet be treated as a right. I liken the internet to press. Most of it sucks, but having it and being able to freely speak through it, is essential to liberty. I mean, if we as a society don't believe people like this should have a free internet like everyone else, we deserve the closed internet we will get. Freedom sucks because you have to listen to a lot of assholes, but it's much better than the alternative.
    - betafive 9y ago
      They can still say whatever they like, and, y'know what? Their fascist readers can even still get to it using their IP address-- at least, they could if they weren't hiding it behind CloudFlare. This isn't censorship. As far as I know, no one has the "right" to an entry in the public DNS, nor is any registrar required to do business with Nazis. Registrars have the right to free association and speech too.
      - Clubber 9y ago
        Then no one has the right to a free and public internet. The experiment failed.
        yflu 9y ago
        Can they not simply self-host? But besides that, my understanding is that though the internet is free, the various entities on the internet are equally free to refuse service. After all, if they were otherwise obligated, that would imply X's freedom can override Y's freedom, which also contradicts the nebulous ideal of freedom.
patrickg_zill 9y ago
"The answer to speech you don't agree with, is more speech."
interstitial 9y ago
Ah, who took the "hacker" out of hacker news? Would you rather have the stormfront members speaking openly, or getting more educated about the dark web, where they'll be forced to go? I prefer they stay as unsophisticated as possible, openly hosted at godaddy. It's not a false dichotomy. Taking away their hosting is not going to end their site or community. Though it does allow, risk-free opportunity to virtue signal on your favorite platform.
- nthcolumn 9y ago
  He may be many things but weev is not stupid. He knows enough already. Security through obscurity never works. I fully expected him to move his shit to the company in Ukraine he works for now. Maybe having to move their base around will leave a trail. Ultimately we want actual hands on these douche bags.

30 points by betafive 9y ago

dfps 9y ago

They being the domain registrar (edit thx betafive) for the domain (they already didn't host the content). Also, this followed hacking and threats: ... (CNN)The Daily Stormer, a white supremacist and neo-Nazi website, needs to find another domain name provider after GoDaddy gave it the boot following a derogatory story about the woman killed at the Charlottesville, Virginia, rally. The site, which calls itself "The World's Most Genocidal Republican Website," registered its name with GoDaddy -- but GoDaddy doesn't host the Daily Stormer's content. ... (Guardian)A message purportedly posted by hackers has appeared on the Daily Stormer, a neo-Nazi website, saying the site has been taken over in response to an article criticising a woman who died during violence at far-right rally in Virginia over the weekend. ... What I'm curious about is Google. Are they providing hosting and domain serving for anybody (even unpopular speech)? Where does content go when companies refuse to work with publishers?

betafive 9y ago
Google has replaced GoDaddy as the registrar. Afaict, the domain continues to be hosted by/through CloudFlare, as it has been for several years. The "hack" is fake.
- dfps 9y ago
  So is Google now a more reliable/bulletproof registrar? I think I've heard CloudFlare will not take refuse anything
  - betafive 9y ago
    Tbh, I doubt Google knows they're the Stormers' registrar yet; you can transfer domains automatically. CloudFlare doesn't provide hosting, it's a reverse proxy. But, if you believe http://www.crimeflare.com/cfs.html http://www.crimeflare.com/cfs.html, the actual web server sitting behind dailystormer.com is hosted by online.net, of France.
    - dfps 9y ago
      Right. I use CF. I just meant that there has been criticism aimed at CF for 'protecting' (providing service to) unpopular speech (even harmful stuff like IS), and I think I read they were unwilling to refuse service to anybody. France, hey? I've actually heard France is competitive with US when it comes to internet and free speech. Do you think that's true? I wonder which country most protects speech on the internet?
      - betafive 9y ago
        It is illegal to promote ethnic hatred or deny the Holocaust in France, so...
        dfps 9y ago
        Is there any country that protects all speech that you know of? (Related to the law you mentioned, in Germany they also have laws that are reactions to WWII, and they arrested some Chinese tourists for making Nazi salutes for tourist photos outside a government building last week.)
        betafive 9y ago
        Protecting speech is often in tension with other individual liberties that are supposed to be protected, and the purpose of government is to arbitrate those disputes. I don't think there are any that grant unfettered protection to speech-- a government that permitted advocation of treason, for instance, probably wouldn't last very long.
        dfps 9y ago
        It is definitely possible to have complete protection of speech. It's a choice, and the repercussions of it would not involve great harm, although since the 1950s we seem to be getting closer (and sometimes further). Treason is only possible if a country is at war (ie has an "enemy"). The speech would be protected as it is now (that wouldn't be the crime they break), but they could be found guilty of committing treason by the same (speech in this case) act.
- duskwuff 9y ago
  > The "hack" is fake. Unproven but likely. The "defaced" page was posted through their CMS (WordPress), which is rather atypical for defaced domains. The writer's promise to only take the domain down for 24 hours is also quite unusual. What seems most likely to me is that this was used as an excuse to take down their content until their domain was transferred away from GoDaddy.

tdurden 9y ago

Google just kicked them off for violating TOS as well.

betafive 9y ago
Good.
- Clubber 9y ago
  Not really. I don't care for what they say, but it's important that they have the ability to say it. It's concerning that private companies, through registrars have the ability to erase viewpoints from the public internet. More signs that the internet be treated as a right. I liken the internet to press. Most of it sucks, but having it and being able to freely speak through it, is essential to liberty. I mean, if we as a society don't believe people like this should have a free internet like everyone else, we deserve the closed internet we will get. Freedom sucks because you have to listen to a lot of assholes, but it's much better than the alternative.
  - betafive 9y ago
    They can still say whatever they like, and, y'know what? Their fascist readers can even still get to it using their IP address-- at least, they could if they weren't hiding it behind CloudFlare. This isn't censorship. As far as I know, no one has the "right" to an entry in the public DNS, nor is any registrar required to do business with Nazis. Registrars have the right to free association and speech too.
    - Clubber 9y ago
      Then no one has the right to a free and public internet. The experiment failed.
      - yflu 9y ago
        Can they not simply self-host? But besides that, my understanding is that though the internet is free, the various entities on the internet are equally free to refuse service. After all, if they were otherwise obligated, that would imply X's freedom can override Y's freedom, which also contradicts the nebulous ideal of freedom.

patrickg_zill 9y ago

"The answer to speech you don't agree with, is more speech."

interstitial 9y ago

Ah, who took the "hacker" out of hacker news? Would you rather have the stormfront members speaking openly, or getting more educated about the dark web, where they'll be forced to go? I prefer they stay as unsophisticated as possible, openly hosted at godaddy. It's not a false dichotomy. Taking away their hosting is not going to end their site or community. Though it does allow, risk-free opportunity to virtue signal on your favorite platform.

nthcolumn 9y ago
He may be many things but weev is not stupid. He knows enough already. Security through obscurity never works. I fully expected him to move his shit to the company in Ukraine he works for now. Maybe having to move their base around will leave a trail. Ultimately we want actual hands on these douche bags.