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Oh, so it's like https://shapeshift.io/ https://shapeshift.io/ except subject to the arbitrary and Orwellian US financial regulations! All jokes aside, I'm not

Oh, so it's like https://shapeshift.io/ https://shapeshift.io/ except subject to the arbitrary and Orwellian US financial regulations! All jokes aside, I'm not knocking Evercoin. It looks beautiful and I welcome anyone and everyone who wants to bring liquidity to crypto markets. I'm just concerned about the sustainability of any platform based in the US. Maybe Evercoin knows something I don't though. I feel like the smartest thing we can do is exactly what Bitfinex has done. Shut out US customers and put pressure on regulators to be sensible.

komaromy 9y ago
Shapeshift is very convenient but the fees are exorbitant compared to other platforms.
- xur17 9y ago
  And Evercoin's fees are even higher.
  - gst 9y ago
    I just tried placing an order and Evercoin's fees appear to be significantly lower. Shapeshift: 1 BTC -> 14.20477011 ETH Evercoin: 1 BTC -> 14.25967407 ETH Changelly: 1 BTC -> 14.35434362 ETH While Changelly appears to have the best rate they don't guarantee the rate. In my experience the actual rate is often much worse than the estimated rate (and unfortunately it's too late to cancel once you see the rate).
    - xur17 9y ago
      I was originally testing BCC to BTC, so it looks like it depends upon what you are exchanging: Shapeshift: 1 BCC -> 0.06773499 BTC Evercoin: 1 BCC -> 0.06682701 BTC
      - clemens2000 9y ago
        Maybe someone should build a Kayak for Bitcoin exchanges, that picks the cheapest exchange for each trade...
        xur17 9y ago
        That thought definitely crossed my mind...
        ufotarikati 9y ago
        Writing the formula for you 1) pick the cheapest exchange 2) sell at expensive exchange price 3) add commission 4) add network fees
        tstyle 9y ago
        The formula is more complicated than this. Services such as shapeshift.io guarantee the price for 10 minutes, as well as sending purchased tokens almost instantaneously. To accomplish this means keeping inventory and becoming vulnerable to volatility risk and liquidity risk. Picking a reasonable bid-ask spread is hard, and probably involves more input factors than the 4 you listed above.
    - xseven 9y ago
      They're all going away after cross-chain atomic swaps become THE thing.
      - gst 9y ago
        Yes. XCAT is definitely the way forward for transactions that involve only XCAT-compatible chains. Especially as it can be implemented either in a pure P2P fashion or with trustless exchanges, resulting in zero or very low fees.
chatmasta 9y ago
The gambling industry tried that ~10 years ago, but it's still very difficult to gamble online with a us bank account, so I'm not sure how well it worked.
corford 9y ago
Pick your poison I guess. Skimming Shapeshift's T&Cs, it seems their maximum liability to you is $50. So if you want to convert 1BTC to ETH (for example) and something goes wrong at Shapeshift's end and they don't transmit ETH back to you, the best you can hope for out of them is $50. They also put you on the hook for uncapped admin fees at their discretion. Finally, there's no company info in their T&Cs (just a vague mention that they are incorporated in Zug, Switzerland). So... all dandy when it works. Pretty scary if shit goes wrong and you were doing a largish trade at the time. Edit: I have no affiliation with Evercoin or Shapeshift (learnt about both in this thread)
tryingagainbro 9y ago
>> except subject to the arbitrary and Orwellian US financial regulations! abiding by those seems to be the only recipe for long term. Otherwise you're talking about living in interesting times. Never know when or how they come for you
- uncletammy 9y ago
  Widespread global liquidity on an in invisible commodity that has high demand all across the world is a complete game changer. In the very long run, I think state funded consumer protection organizations will become obsolete. I only hope we can educate consumers as quickly as we've created the networks. Otherwise, a lot of people will get hurt. Either way we live in interesting times.
  - erikpukinskis 9y ago
    When you say consumer protection, you mean the SEC? How does crypto make the SEC go away? If you want to live in the US, sure you could have a computer in your closet on a VPN running an exchange, but all of that needs to be on the books when you need to write a check to your kids private school. I think it's more likely there will continue to be a black market and a white market. The black market will be bigger, and easier to use undetected. But you still will need to launder that money if you want to pay for your daughters ski trip. And not everybody has an appetite for felonies. The market of people who would prefer not to commit a felony is quite large actually. What am I missing? How do you picture a world without an SEC? The only way I can imagine is is if other muncipalities without as much regulation can show cryptocontracts can provide insurance that is so good and cheap the regulatory bodies are proved unnecessary, then that puts competitive pressure on more regulated economies. But... Fraud is a Hegelian arms race for the hearts and minds of naive investors. I just don't see how crypto contracts solve that, not in the next 100 years anyway. Maybe when teenagers are doing ICOs to pay for their lattes.
zeep 9y ago
Btc-e was was not based in the US and see what happened?
- uncletammy 9y ago
  I don't actually. Tell me what you think happened with BTC-E. I'm aware of the recent headlines but I feel like it's way too early to know the whole story.
  - zeep 9y ago
    https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/pr/russian-national-and-bitcoin-exchange-charged-21-count-indictment-operating-alleged https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/pr/russian-national-and-bi... Also: https://www.reddit.com/r/BTCE/comments/6tlkme/update_6/ https://www.reddit.com/r/BTCE/comments/6tlkme/update_6/

komaromy 9y ago

Shapeshift is very convenient but the fees are exorbitant compared to other platforms.

xur17 9y ago
And Evercoin's fees are even higher.
- gst 9y ago
  I just tried placing an order and Evercoin's fees appear to be significantly lower. Shapeshift: 1 BTC -> 14.20477011 ETH Evercoin: 1 BTC -> 14.25967407 ETH Changelly: 1 BTC -> 14.35434362 ETH While Changelly appears to have the best rate they don't guarantee the rate. In my experience the actual rate is often much worse than the estimated rate (and unfortunately it's too late to cancel once you see the rate).
  - xur17 9y ago
    I was originally testing BCC to BTC, so it looks like it depends upon what you are exchanging: Shapeshift: 1 BCC -> 0.06773499 BTC Evercoin: 1 BCC -> 0.06682701 BTC
    - clemens2000 9y ago
      Maybe someone should build a Kayak for Bitcoin exchanges, that picks the cheapest exchange for each trade...
      - xur17 9y ago
        That thought definitely crossed my mind...
      - ufotarikati 9y ago
        Writing the formula for you 1) pick the cheapest exchange 2) sell at expensive exchange price 3) add commission 4) add network fees
        tstyle 9y ago
        The formula is more complicated than this. Services such as shapeshift.io guarantee the price for 10 minutes, as well as sending purchased tokens almost instantaneously. To accomplish this means keeping inventory and becoming vulnerable to volatility risk and liquidity risk. Picking a reasonable bid-ask spread is hard, and probably involves more input factors than the 4 you listed above.
  - xseven 9y ago
    They're all going away after cross-chain atomic swaps become THE thing.
    - gst 9y ago
      Yes. XCAT is definitely the way forward for transactions that involve only XCAT-compatible chains. Especially as it can be implemented either in a pure P2P fashion or with trustless exchanges, resulting in zero or very low fees.

chatmasta 9y ago

The gambling industry tried that ~10 years ago, but it's still very difficult to gamble online with a us bank account, so I'm not sure how well it worked.

corford 9y ago

Pick your poison I guess. Skimming Shapeshift's T&Cs, it seems their maximum liability to you is $50. So if you want to convert 1BTC to ETH (for example) and something goes wrong at Shapeshift's end and they don't transmit ETH back to you, the best you can hope for out of them is $50. They also put you on the hook for uncapped admin fees at their discretion. Finally, there's no company info in their T&Cs (just a vague mention that they are incorporated in Zug, Switzerland). So... all dandy when it works. Pretty scary if shit goes wrong and you were doing a largish trade at the time. Edit: I have no affiliation with Evercoin or Shapeshift (learnt about both in this thread)

tryingagainbro 9y ago

>> except subject to the arbitrary and Orwellian US financial regulations! abiding by those seems to be the only recipe for long term. Otherwise you're talking about living in interesting times. Never know when or how they come for you

uncletammy 9y ago
Widespread global liquidity on an in invisible commodity that has high demand all across the world is a complete game changer. In the very long run, I think state funded consumer protection organizations will become obsolete. I only hope we can educate consumers as quickly as we've created the networks. Otherwise, a lot of people will get hurt. Either way we live in interesting times.
- erikpukinskis 9y ago
  When you say consumer protection, you mean the SEC? How does crypto make the SEC go away? If you want to live in the US, sure you could have a computer in your closet on a VPN running an exchange, but all of that needs to be on the books when you need to write a check to your kids private school. I think it's more likely there will continue to be a black market and a white market. The black market will be bigger, and easier to use undetected. But you still will need to launder that money if you want to pay for your daughters ski trip. And not everybody has an appetite for felonies. The market of people who would prefer not to commit a felony is quite large actually. What am I missing? How do you picture a world without an SEC? The only way I can imagine is is if other muncipalities without as much regulation can show cryptocontracts can provide insurance that is so good and cheap the regulatory bodies are proved unnecessary, then that puts competitive pressure on more regulated economies. But... Fraud is a Hegelian arms race for the hearts and minds of naive investors. I just don't see how crypto contracts solve that, not in the next 100 years anyway. Maybe when teenagers are doing ICOs to pay for their lattes.

zeep 9y ago

Btc-e was was not based in the US and see what happened?

uncletammy 9y ago
I don't actually. Tell me what you think happened with BTC-E. I'm aware of the recent headlines but I feel like it's way too early to know the whole story.
- zeep 9y ago
  https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/pr/russian-national-and-bitcoin-exchange-charged-21-count-indictment-operating-alleged https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/pr/russian-national-and-bi... Also: https://www.reddit.com/r/BTCE/comments/6tlkme/update_6/ https://www.reddit.com/r/BTCE/comments/6tlkme/update_6/