3 ms·

The simplicity of the conversion is fantastic, but I am perplexed as to how an anonymous exchange exists when there are KYC requirements.

ringaroundthetx 9y ago
first by admitting that KYC wouldn't help stop terrorists even if it was implemented how you imagined it. Even Shapeshift wrote that in response to the WannaCry investigations. One hop to Monero and the whole money firewall regime is foiled, hopefully enough that the people of any nation ask their governments to stop spending their money on that task, and focus on the economy in more productive ways. KYC laws apply to national currencies. Any cryptocurrency exchange that has limits is just trying to run a show to appease some senators for the time being.
- JumpCrisscross 9y ago
  > KYC laws apply to national currencies Assuming federal laws don't apply because you sprinkled some magic around you is a pretty awful way to end up in jail. KYC violations are criminally punishable. Anyone operating a non-compliant exchange is subject to investigation, arrest and asset freezes. Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer. This comment does not constitute legal nor investment advice.
  - ringaroundthetx 9y ago
    > Assuming federal laws don't apply because you sprinkled some magic around you is a pretty awful way to end up in jail. AML/KYC apply to institutions that apply for Money Service Business licenses, MSBs for short. This is promulgated by FinCEN agency of the US Treasury department. FinCEN has comprehensive definitions of what kind of digital currency use is subject to MSB registration. It is easy for digital currency to other digital currency exchangers to be exempt from those regulations, via one of the codified exemptions, because your straw man argument about federal laws not applying wasn't the argument I was making at all. So now that we've established that, let me know if you want to discuss the something closer to reality.
    - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
      > AML/KYC apply to institutions that apply for Money Service Business licenses MSBs have KYC requirements. It does not follow that non-MSBs have no KYC requirements. FINRA-member firms, for example, are not MSBs and have strict KYC rules [1]. FinCEN has nowhere said that non-MSBs are exempt from KYC. Nobody can competently say that. All American businesses are subject to the minimum threshold of KYC responsibility in coöperating with OFAC restrictions [2]. [1] http://www.finra.org/industry/notices/11-02 http://www.finra.org/industry/notices/11-02 [2] https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/faqs/Sanctions/Pages/faq_general.aspx https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/faqs/Sanctions/Page... Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer. This comment does not constitute legal nor investment advice.
      - ringaroundthetx 9y ago
        FinCEN wouldn't be the agency to say non-MSBs are exempt from KYC. There may be a kind of FINRA member firm that is both regulated by the SEC and not an MSB, but many kinds, such as broker-dealers are regulated by both FINRA and the SEC and subject to the source you linked. Yes, OFAC is a different discussion with different considerations.
jpatokal 9y ago
It's not clear that KYC requirements apply when you're not handling fiat money, which these exchanges aren't. Although I agree with other comments noting that it's pretty ballsy to make that argument if you're incorporated in the US...

ringaroundthetx 9y ago

first by admitting that KYC wouldn't help stop terrorists even if it was implemented how you imagined it. Even Shapeshift wrote that in response to the WannaCry investigations. One hop to Monero and the whole money firewall regime is foiled, hopefully enough that the people of any nation ask their governments to stop spending their money on that task, and focus on the economy in more productive ways. KYC laws apply to national currencies. Any cryptocurrency exchange that has limits is just trying to run a show to appease some senators for the time being.

JumpCrisscross 9y ago
> KYC laws apply to national currencies Assuming federal laws don't apply because you sprinkled some magic around you is a pretty awful way to end up in jail. KYC violations are criminally punishable. Anyone operating a non-compliant exchange is subject to investigation, arrest and asset freezes. Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer. This comment does not constitute legal nor investment advice.
- ringaroundthetx 9y ago
  > Assuming federal laws don't apply because you sprinkled some magic around you is a pretty awful way to end up in jail. AML/KYC apply to institutions that apply for Money Service Business licenses, MSBs for short. This is promulgated by FinCEN agency of the US Treasury department. FinCEN has comprehensive definitions of what kind of digital currency use is subject to MSB registration. It is easy for digital currency to other digital currency exchangers to be exempt from those regulations, via one of the codified exemptions, because your straw man argument about federal laws not applying wasn't the argument I was making at all. So now that we've established that, let me know if you want to discuss the something closer to reality.
  - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
    > AML/KYC apply to institutions that apply for Money Service Business licenses MSBs have KYC requirements. It does not follow that non-MSBs have no KYC requirements. FINRA-member firms, for example, are not MSBs and have strict KYC rules [1]. FinCEN has nowhere said that non-MSBs are exempt from KYC. Nobody can competently say that. All American businesses are subject to the minimum threshold of KYC responsibility in coöperating with OFAC restrictions [2]. [1] http://www.finra.org/industry/notices/11-02 http://www.finra.org/industry/notices/11-02 [2] https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/faqs/Sanctions/Pages/faq_general.aspx https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/faqs/Sanctions/Page... Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer. This comment does not constitute legal nor investment advice.
    - ringaroundthetx 9y ago
      FinCEN wouldn't be the agency to say non-MSBs are exempt from KYC. There may be a kind of FINRA member firm that is both regulated by the SEC and not an MSB, but many kinds, such as broker-dealers are regulated by both FINRA and the SEC and subject to the source you linked. Yes, OFAC is a different discussion with different considerations.

jpatokal 9y ago

It's not clear that KYC requirements apply when you're not handling fiat money, which these exchanges aren't. Although I agree with other comments noting that it's pretty ballsy to make that argument if you're incorporated in the US...